From kf6wax at yahoo.com  Tue May  1 07:25:46 2007
From: kf6wax at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 05:25:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update
In-Reply-To: <CF8EE0855546429FAF7E275438FD8B19@VistaBeta2PC>
Message-ID: <20070501122546.61661.qmail@web55210.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

Just done the same update for my VP2 and I believe one of the corrections was to the Barometer, my station seems to mirror the trend much better and more smoothly (less spikes) 
   
  Best
  steve, AS132/kf6wax-3

Kevin Gray <notsome1else at insightbb.com> wrote:
                I just updated the Firmware on my VP1 to Rev B, November 20 2006. 
  Update (rental unit) was simple, and went quick and error free.
  Now I have correct daylight saving, as well as new added features. J
  Nothing to do now but wait for about 30 days, and check QC daily, before making any adjustments
  Are there any known issues to be aware of after updating firmware?
   
  Kevin Gray
  N9VPV
  AP879
   

_______________________________________________
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Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
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---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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From eholmes at aeneas.net  Tue May  1 07:37:13 2007
From: eholmes at aeneas.net (Eddie Holmes)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 07:37:13 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update
In-Reply-To: <20070501122546.61661.qmail@web55210.mail.re4.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <004801c78bed$728690c0$0f13a8c0@Eddie>

Ok, I'm going to ask."If you don't ask."  you know the saying.  So, there is
hardware and software.so someone define "firmware" for me.  Thanks!

 

  _____  

From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
[mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:26 AM
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
Subject: Re: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update

 

Just done the same update for my VP2 and I believe one of the corrections
was to the Barometer, my station seems to mirror the trend much better and
more smoothly (less spikes) 

 

Best

steve, AS132/kf6wax-3

Kevin Gray <notsome1else at insightbb.com> wrote:

I just updated the Firmware on my VP1 to Rev B, November 20 2006. 

Update (rental unit) was simple, and went quick and error free.

Now I have correct daylight saving, as well as new added features. :-)

Nothing to do now but wait for about 30 days, and check QC daily, before
making any adjustments

Are there any known issues to be aware of after updating firmware?

 

Kevin Gray

N9VPV

AP879

 

_______________________________________________
wxqc mailing list
Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc

The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.

 

  

  _____  

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=
X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM->  cars
at Yahoo! Autos. 

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From thunder at elginweather.com  Tue May  1 07:58:59 2007
From: thunder at elginweather.com (Garret Petersen)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 07:58:59 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update
In-Reply-To: <CF8EE0855546429FAF7E275438FD8B19@VistaBeta2PC>
References: <CF8EE0855546429FAF7E275438FD8B19@VistaBeta2PC>
Message-ID: <46373993.4040507@elginweather.com>

Kevin Gray wrote:
>
> I just updated the Firmware on my VP1 to Rev B, November 20 2006.
>
> Update (rental unit) was simple, and went quick and error free.
>
> Now I have correct daylight saving, as well as new added features. J
>
> Nothing to do now but wait for about 30 days, and check QC daily, 
> before making any adjustments
>
> Are there any known issues to be aware of after updating firmware?
>
>  
>
> Kevin Gray
>
> N9VPV
>
> AP879
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
Where did you get the rental unit?  I called Ambient
a month ago and they said that they no longer rent units
because people were'nt returning them.

Garret
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From elinkkila at yahoo.com  Tue May  1 08:02:28 2007
From: elinkkila at yahoo.com (Eleanor Linkkila)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 06:02:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update
In-Reply-To: <004801c78bed$728690c0$0f13a8c0@Eddie>
Message-ID: <931134.83690.qm@web56912.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Was wondering that myself.  According to Wikipedia it is the following.  Someone else might be able to explain it better.
   
  In computing, firmware is software that is embedded in a hardware device. It is often provided on flash ROMs or as a binary image file that can be uploaded onto existing hardware by a user.
   
  Eleanor, CW7448
   
  
Eddie Holmes <eholmes at aeneas.net> wrote:
        v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                Ok, I?m going to ask
?If you don?t ask
?  you know the saying.  So, there is hardware and software
so someone define ?firmware? for me.  Thanks!
   
      
---------------------------------
  
  From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:26 AM
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
Subject: Re: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update

   
    Just done the same update for my VP2 and I believe one of the corrections was to the Barometer, my station seems to mirror the trend much better and more smoothly (less spikes) 

     

    Best

    steve, AS132/kf6wax-3

Kevin Gray <notsome1else at insightbb.com> wrote:

      I just updated the Firmware on my VP1 to Rev B, November 20 2006. 

    Update (rental unit) was simple, and went quick and error free.

    Now I have correct daylight saving, as well as new added features. J

    Nothing to do now but wait for about 30 days, and check QC daily, before making any adjustments

    Are there any known issues to be aware of after updating firmware?

     

    Kevin Gray

    N9VPV

    AP879

     

  _______________________________________________
wxqc mailing list
Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc

The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
   
    
    
---------------------------------
  
  Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. 

_______________________________________________
wxqc mailing list
Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
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From kf6wax at yahoo.com  Tue May  1 08:48:03 2007
From: kf6wax at yahoo.com (steve)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 06:48:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update
In-Reply-To: <931134.83690.qm@web56912.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20070501134803.82449.qmail@web55206.mail.re4.yahoo.com>

I concur with Eleanor, I might add that software may be as well defined as a program added by a floppy or CDrom, but certainly ANY device that is hard coded will be Firmware...I Think! <G>
  Steve, AS132 / kf6wax-3

Eleanor Linkkila <elinkkila at yahoo.com> wrote:
    Was wondering that myself.  According to Wikipedia it is the following.  Someone else might be able to explain it better.
   
  In computing, firmware is software that is embedded in a hardware device. It is often provided on flash ROMs or as a binary image file that can be uploaded onto existing hardware by a user.
   
  Eleanor, CW7448
   
  
Eddie Holmes <eholmes at aeneas.net> wrote:
        v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                Ok, I?m going to ask
?If you don?t ask
?  you know the saying.  So, there is hardware and software
so someone define ?firmware? for me.  Thanks!
   
      
---------------------------------
  
  From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:26 AM
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
Subject: Re: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update

   
    Just done the same update for my VP2 and I believe one of the corrections was to the Barometer, my station seems to mirror the trend much better and more smoothly (less spikes) 

     

    Best

    steve, AS132/kf6wax-3

Kevin Gray <notsome1else at insightbb.com> wrote:

      I just updated the Firmware on my VP1 to Rev B, November 20 2006. 

    Update (rental unit) was simple, and went quick and error free.

    Now I have correct daylight saving, as well as new added features. J

    Nothing to do now but wait for about 30 days, and check QC daily, before making any adjustments

    Are there any known issues to be aware of after updating firmware?

     

    Kevin Gray

    N9VPV

    AP879

     

  _______________________________________________
wxqc mailing list
Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc

The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
   
    
    
---------------------------------
  
  Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new cars at Yahoo! Autos. 

_______________________________________________
wxqc mailing list
Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc

The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
_______________________________________________
wxqc mailing list
Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc

The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.

       
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
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From miklah at charter.net  Tue May  1 09:09:39 2007
From: miklah at charter.net (Mike Y)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 10:09:39 -0400
Subject: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update
References: <004801c78bed$728690c0$0f13a8c0@Eddie>
Message-ID: <005301c78bfa$5ced9f30$6400a8c0@MikesT23>

'Software' is generally defined as something that is 'soft and changeable'

Usually that means loadable programs that disappear when power is
removed.  However, it can also refer to loadable hardware configurations
that are maintained when power is off, but that's more fringe.

'Hardware' is generally defined as something 'hard and fixed'.  Physical
devices such as the actually chips and the associated design.  Usually
a whole PC board is termed 'hardware'.

'Firmware' is generally defined to mean loadable programs or configurations
that do NOT disappear when power is removed.  The most commonly
accepted firmware would include the BIOS in your PC and the data or
programs in EPROMs, even though the EPROM itself is considered
'hardware'.

'Vaporware' is usually non-existent software or hardware some vendors
say 'will be announced soon' or 'the next upgrade'.  (Usually as a response
to customer complaints and 'wishware')

Mike



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eddie Holmes" <eholmes at aeneas.net>
To: <kf6wax at gmail.com>; "'Discussion of weather data quality issues'"
<wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update


> Ok, I'm going to ask."If you don't ask."  you know the saying.  So, there
is
> hardware and software.so someone define "firmware" for me.  Thanks!
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of steve
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:26 AM
> To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update
>
>
>
> Just done the same update for my VP2 and I believe one of the corrections
> was to the Barometer, my station seems to mirror the trend much better and
> more smoothly (less spikes)
>
>
>
> Best
>
> steve, AS132/kf6wax-3
>
> Kevin Gray <notsome1else at insightbb.com> wrote:
>
> I just updated the Firmware on my VP1 to Rev B, November 20 2006.
>
> Update (rental unit) was simple, and went quick and error free.
>
> Now I have correct daylight saving, as well as new added features. :-)
>
> Nothing to do now but wait for about 30 days, and check QC daily, before
> making any adjustments
>
> Are there any known issues to be aware of after updating firmware?
>
>
>
> Kevin Gray
>
> N9VPV
>
> AP879
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>
>
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check out new
>
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=
> X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM->
cars
> at Yahoo! Autos.
>
>


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----


> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.


From bbeeman at beemangroup.com  Tue May  1 09:31:28 2007
From: bbeeman at beemangroup.com (Bill Beeman)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 07:31:28 -0700
Subject: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update
In-Reply-To: <46373993.4040507@elginweather.com>
References: <CF8EE0855546429FAF7E275438FD8B19@VistaBeta2PC>
	<46373993.4040507@elginweather.com>
Message-ID: <003201c78bfd$6fb52e00$4f1f8a00$@com>

 

 

>From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
[mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of Garret Petersen
>Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:59 AM
>To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
>Subject: Re: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update

> 

>Where did you get the rental unit?  I called Ambient
>a month ago and they said that they no longer rent units
>because people were'nt returning them.
>
>Garret

 

Call Davis's customer support.they can do it directly.  Note that they send
the directions with the unit on how to load the firmware into the updater,
but the updater will come with it already loaded, so it is a very simple
process.

 

Bill

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From thunder at elginweather.com  Tue May  1 14:05:55 2007
From: thunder at elginweather.com (Garret Petersen)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 14:05:55 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update
In-Reply-To: <003201c78bfd$6fb52e00$4f1f8a00$@com>
References: <CF8EE0855546429FAF7E275438FD8B19@VistaBeta2PC>	<46373993.4040507@elginweather.com>
	<003201c78bfd$6fb52e00$4f1f8a00$@com>
Message-ID: <46378F93.3010805@elginweather.com>

Bill Beeman wrote:
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *>From:* wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net 
> [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] *On Behalf Of *Garret 
> Petersen
> *>Sent:* Tuesday, May 01, 2007 5:59 AM
> *>To:* Discussion of weather data quality issues
> *>Subject:* Re: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update
>
> > 
>
> >Where did you get the rental unit?  I called Ambient
> >a month ago and they said that they no longer rent units
> >because people were'nt returning them.
> >
> >Garret
>
>  
>
> Call Davis's customer support...they can do it directly.  Note that 
> they send the directions with the unit on how to load the firmware 
> into the updater, but the updater will come with it already loaded, so 
> it is a very simple process.
>
>  
>
> Bill
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
Thx, Bill
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From notsome1else at insightbb.com  Tue May  1 15:30:39 2007
From: notsome1else at insightbb.com (Kevin Gray)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 15:30:39 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update
In-Reply-To: <46373993.4040507@elginweather.com>
Message-ID: <2595B738A2A545839A9509F87123230F@VistaBeta2PC>

I called Davis Support Line. (Listed on their webpage)

 

Updater took awhile to get to me (had to wait my turn) but they did notify
me before it shipped

and when it arrived it was already pre-loaded with the latest firmware and
ready to go.

Took less than 15 min. (including reading instructions) and now it's back in
the box, ready to go back to Davis for someone

else to use.

 

Kevin Gray

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
[mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of Garret Petersen
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:59 AM
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
Subject: Re: [wxqc] VP1 Firmware Update

 

Kevin Gray wrote: 

I just updated the Firmware on my VP1 to Rev B, November 20 2006. 

Update (rental unit) was simple, and went quick and error free.

Now I have correct daylight saving, as well as new added features. :-)

Nothing to do now but wait for about 30 days, and check QC daily, before
making any adjustments

Are there any known issues to be aware of after updating firmware?

 

Kevin Gray

N9VPV

AP879

 

 





  _____  



 
_______________________________________________
wxqc mailing list
Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
 
The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.

Where did you get the rental unit?  I called Ambient
a month ago and they said that they no longer rent units
because people were'nt returning them.

Garret

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From brillig at gmail.com  Tue May  1 18:53:28 2007
From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:53:28 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Moisture Content
Message-ID: <e0e999680705011653t1abd1c06r6155c4ae9ac809b5@mail.gmail.com>

I hope this isn't too far off-topic. I've just recently discovered the
wonderful animated radar images provided on weatherunderground.
Currently there are some storms exceeding the scale, which maxes out
at 70 Kg/m^2. Oh, wait a minute. The scale just added another 5 Kg. I
guess it's an adaptive scale. How high do these moisture readings get?

From brillig at gmail.com  Tue May  1 18:56:08 2007
From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 18:56:08 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Moisture Content
In-Reply-To: <e0e999680705011653t1abd1c06r6155c4ae9ac809b5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e0e999680705011653t1abd1c06r6155c4ae9ac809b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e0e999680705011656k5d9a4eal662f04ff4e5de63@mail.gmail.com>

What I meant was VIL (vertically integrated liquid). The storm
currently at 71 Kg/m^2 is predicted by weatherunderground to have a
100% chance of producing damaging hail with size up to 2.75 inches.

On 5/1/07, Victor Engel <brillig at gmail.com> wrote:
> I hope this isn't too far off-topic. I've just recently discovered the
> wonderful animated radar images provided on weatherunderground.
> Currently there are some storms exceeding the scale, which maxes out
> at 70 Kg/m^2. Oh, wait a minute. The scale just added another 5 Kg. I
> guess it's an adaptive scale. How high do these moisture readings get?
>

From Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov  Tue May  1 19:09:52 2007
From: Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov (Evan Bookbinder)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 19:09:52 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Moisture Content
In-Reply-To: <e0e999680705011656k5d9a4eal662f04ff4e5de63@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e0e999680705011653t1abd1c06r6155c4ae9ac809b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0e999680705011656k5d9a4eal662f04ff4e5de63@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <017801c78c4e$35526b00$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>

Just to avoid any confusion in Victor's post, there is no correlation
between VIL and hail probability/size...the latter variables come

VIL is a vertical integration (summation) of the amount of reflectivity
returns over a given "pixel". Its usefullness is really aged in an era where
we have quick acess to the various tilts/slices from the radar, but was used
as a quick glance to find the 'worst' heavy rain producers quickly.

Max values really depend on how VIL is calculated. Wunderground is using an
averaged 1x1 sq. km pixel with a 58 dBZ cap in the VIL calculation. Values
of 80-100 would be seen with really deep/intense storms in the summer. 71 is
very high.

Evan


> -----Original Message-----
> From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net 
> [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of 
> Victor Engel
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:56 PM
> To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> 
> What I meant was VIL (vertically integrated liquid). The 
> storm currently at 71 Kg/m^2 is predicted by 
> weatherunderground to have a 100% chance of producing 
> damaging hail with size up to 2.75 inches.
> 
> On 5/1/07, Victor Engel <brillig at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I hope this isn't too far off-topic. I've just recently 
> discovered the 
> > wonderful animated radar images provided on weatherunderground.
> > Currently there are some storms exceeding the scale, which 
> maxes out 
> > at 70 Kg/m^2. Oh, wait a minute. The scale just added 
> another 5 Kg. I 
> > guess it's an adaptive scale. How high do these moisture 
> readings get?
> >
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe 
> or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> 
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> 


From brillig at gmail.com  Wed May  2 19:31:23 2007
From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 19:31:23 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Moisture Content
In-Reply-To: <017801c78c4e$35526b00$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
References: <e0e999680705011653t1abd1c06r6155c4ae9ac809b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0e999680705011656k5d9a4eal662f04ff4e5de63@mail.gmail.com>
	<017801c78c4e$35526b00$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
Message-ID: <e0e999680705021731x5e6e2471k661bfd843e2f8191@mail.gmail.com>

Right. Didn't mean to confuse. Right now there is a storm reading 84
Kg/m^2, and there is no mention of hail.

The problem with the slices is that they're not combined. Or is there
a resource that graphically shows this combined data somewhere that
I'm unaware of.

With this low pressure zone hovering over Texas, I've been enjoying
watching the storms and comparing the various tools out there.
Yesterday, I sent an email to someone pointing out a storm where there
seemed to be a very strong local difference in relative velocities. I
suggested that maybe it would produce a tornado. Half an hour later,
there was a tornado warning from the same storm, somewhat north of
Fredericksburg.

On 5/1/07, Evan Bookbinder <Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov> wrote:
> Just to avoid any confusion in Victor's post, there is no correlation
> between VIL and hail probability/size...the latter variables come

... this seems to have been cut off. Did you intend more?

> VIL is a vertical integration (summation) of the amount of reflectivity
> returns over a given "pixel". Its usefullness is really aged in an era where
> we have quick acess to the various tilts/slices from the radar, but was used
> as a quick glance to find the 'worst' heavy rain producers quickly.
>
> Max values really depend on how VIL is calculated. Wunderground is using an
> averaged 1x1 sq. km pixel with a 58 dBZ cap in the VIL calculation. Values
> of 80-100 would be seen with really deep/intense storms in the summer. 71 is
> very high.
>
> Evan
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of
> > Victor Engel
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:56 PM
> > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> >
> > What I meant was VIL (vertically integrated liquid). The
> > storm currently at 71 Kg/m^2 is predicted by
> > weatherunderground to have a 100% chance of producing
> > damaging hail with size up to 2.75 inches.
> >
> > On 5/1/07, Victor Engel <brillig at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I hope this isn't too far off-topic. I've just recently
> > discovered the
> > > wonderful animated radar images provided on weatherunderground.
> > > Currently there are some storms exceeding the scale, which
> > maxes out
> > > at 70 Kg/m^2. Oh, wait a minute. The scale just added
> > another 5 Kg. I
> > > guess it's an adaptive scale. How high do these moisture
> > readings get?
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wxqc mailing list
> > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe
> > or change delivery options, please go to:
> > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> >
> > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>

From Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov  Wed May  2 19:50:46 2007
From: Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov (Evan Bookbinder)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 19:50:46 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Moisture Content
In-Reply-To: <e0e999680705021731x5e6e2471k661bfd843e2f8191@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e0e999680705011653t1abd1c06r6155c4ae9ac809b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0e999680705011656k5d9a4eal662f04ff4e5de63@mail.gmail.com>
	<017801c78c4e$35526b00$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
	<e0e999680705021731x5e6e2471k661bfd843e2f8191@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501c78d1d$19d05480$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>

The "combination of slices" in a worst-case sense is the Composite
Reflectivity product.

Evan 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net 
> [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of 
> Victor Engel
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:31 PM
> To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> 
> Right. Didn't mean to confuse. Right now there is a storm 
> reading 84 Kg/m^2, and there is no mention of hail.
> 
> The problem with the slices is that they're not combined. Or 
> is there a resource that graphically shows this combined data 
> somewhere that I'm unaware of.
> 
> With this low pressure zone hovering over Texas, I've been 
> enjoying watching the storms and comparing the various tools 
> out there.
> Yesterday, I sent an email to someone pointing out a storm 
> where there seemed to be a very strong local difference in 
> relative velocities. I suggested that maybe it would produce 
> a tornado. Half an hour later, there was a tornado warning 
> from the same storm, somewhat north of Fredericksburg.
> 
> On 5/1/07, Evan Bookbinder <Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov> wrote:
> > Just to avoid any confusion in Victor's post, there is no 
> correlation 
> > between VIL and hail probability/size...the latter variables come
> 
> ... this seems to have been cut off. Did you intend more?
> 
> > VIL is a vertical integration (summation) of the amount of 
> > reflectivity returns over a given "pixel". Its usefullness 
> is really 
> > aged in an era where we have quick acess to the various 
> tilts/slices 
> > from the radar, but was used as a quick glance to find the 
> 'worst' heavy rain producers quickly.
> >
> > Max values really depend on how VIL is calculated. Wunderground is 
> > using an averaged 1x1 sq. km pixel with a 58 dBZ cap in the VIL 
> > calculation. Values of 80-100 would be seen with really 
> deep/intense 
> > storms in the summer. 71 is very high.
> >
> > Evan
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> > > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf 
> Of Victor 
> > > Engel
> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:56 PM
> > > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> > > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> > >
> > > What I meant was VIL (vertically integrated liquid). The storm 
> > > currently at 71 Kg/m^2 is predicted by weatherunderground 
> to have a 
> > > 100% chance of producing damaging hail with size up to 
> 2.75 inches.
> > >
> > > On 5/1/07, Victor Engel <brillig at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I hope this isn't too far off-topic. I've just recently
> > > discovered the
> > > > wonderful animated radar images provided on weatherunderground.
> > > > Currently there are some storms exceeding the scale, which
> > > maxes out
> > > > at 70 Kg/m^2. Oh, wait a minute. The scale just added
> > > another 5 Kg. I
> > > > guess it's an adaptive scale. How high do these moisture
> > > readings get?
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > wxqc mailing list
> > > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or 
> > > change delivery options, please go to:
> > > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> > >
> > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wxqc mailing list
> > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or 
> > change delivery options, please go to:
> > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> >
> > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe 
> or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> 
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> 


From brillig at gmail.com  Wed May  2 20:10:15 2007
From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 20:10:15 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Moisture Content
In-Reply-To: <000501c78d1d$19d05480$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
References: <e0e999680705011653t1abd1c06r6155c4ae9ac809b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0e999680705011656k5d9a4eal662f04ff4e5de63@mail.gmail.com>
	<017801c78c4e$35526b00$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
	<e0e999680705021731x5e6e2471k661bfd843e2f8191@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501c78d1d$19d05480$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
Message-ID: <e0e999680705021810y67a6abbah6aada005db01a241@mail.gmail.com>

What do you mean "worst-case"?

BTW, a 99 Kg/m^2 storm just popped up.

On 5/2/07, Evan Bookbinder <Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov> wrote:
> The "combination of slices" in a worst-case sense is the Composite
> Reflectivity product.
>
> Evan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of
> > Victor Engel
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:31 PM
> > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> >
> > Right. Didn't mean to confuse. Right now there is a storm
> > reading 84 Kg/m^2, and there is no mention of hail.
> >
> > The problem with the slices is that they're not combined. Or
> > is there a resource that graphically shows this combined data
> > somewhere that I'm unaware of.
> >
> > With this low pressure zone hovering over Texas, I've been
> > enjoying watching the storms and comparing the various tools
> > out there.
> > Yesterday, I sent an email to someone pointing out a storm
> > where there seemed to be a very strong local difference in
> > relative velocities. I suggested that maybe it would produce
> > a tornado. Half an hour later, there was a tornado warning
> > from the same storm, somewhat north of Fredericksburg.
> >
> > On 5/1/07, Evan Bookbinder <Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov> wrote:
> > > Just to avoid any confusion in Victor's post, there is no
> > correlation
> > > between VIL and hail probability/size...the latter variables come
> >
> > ... this seems to have been cut off. Did you intend more?
> >
> > > VIL is a vertical integration (summation) of the amount of
> > > reflectivity returns over a given "pixel". Its usefullness
> > is really
> > > aged in an era where we have quick acess to the various
> > tilts/slices
> > > from the radar, but was used as a quick glance to find the
> > 'worst' heavy rain producers quickly.
> > >
> > > Max values really depend on how VIL is calculated. Wunderground is
> > > using an averaged 1x1 sq. km pixel with a 58 dBZ cap in the VIL
> > > calculation. Values of 80-100 would be seen with really
> > deep/intense
> > > storms in the summer. 71 is very high.
> > >
> > > Evan
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> > > > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf
> > Of Victor
> > > > Engel
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:56 PM
> > > > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> > > > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> > > >
> > > > What I meant was VIL (vertically integrated liquid). The storm
> > > > currently at 71 Kg/m^2 is predicted by weatherunderground
> > to have a
> > > > 100% chance of producing damaging hail with size up to
> > 2.75 inches.
> > > >
> > > > On 5/1/07, Victor Engel <brillig at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I hope this isn't too far off-topic. I've just recently
> > > > discovered the
> > > > > wonderful animated radar images provided on weatherunderground.
> > > > > Currently there are some storms exceeding the scale, which
> > > > maxes out
> > > > > at 70 Kg/m^2. Oh, wait a minute. The scale just added
> > > > another 5 Kg. I
> > > > > guess it's an adaptive scale. How high do these moisture
> > > > readings get?
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > wxqc mailing list
> > > > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or
> > > > change delivery options, please go to:
> > > > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> > > >
> > > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > wxqc mailing list
> > > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or
> > > change delivery options, please go to:
> > > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> > >
> > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wxqc mailing list
> > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe
> > or change delivery options, please go to:
> > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> >
> > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>

From Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov  Wed May  2 20:56:22 2007
From: Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov (Evan Bookbinder)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 20:56:22 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Moisture Content
In-Reply-To: <e0e999680705021810y67a6abbah6aada005db01a241@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e0e999680705011653t1abd1c06r6155c4ae9ac809b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0e999680705011656k5d9a4eal662f04ff4e5de63@mail.gmail.com>
	<017801c78c4e$35526b00$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
	<e0e999680705021731x5e6e2471k661bfd843e2f8191@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501c78d1d$19d05480$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
	<e0e999680705021810y67a6abbah6aada005db01a241@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001a01c78d26$4084b0e0$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>

Worst-case means what it sounds like. Over a given 1km x 1km pixel, the
composite reflectivity plots the highest reflectivity found at any slice
above that pixel.

HTH,
Evan 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net 
> [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of 
> Victor Engel
> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:10 PM
> To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> 
> What do you mean "worst-case"?
> 
> BTW, a 99 Kg/m^2 storm just popped up.
> 
> On 5/2/07, Evan Bookbinder <Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov> wrote:
> > The "combination of slices" in a worst-case sense is the Composite 
> > Reflectivity product.
> >
> > Evan
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> > > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf 
> Of Victor 
> > > Engel
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:31 PM
> > > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> > > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> > >
> > > Right. Didn't mean to confuse. Right now there is a storm 
> reading 84 
> > > Kg/m^2, and there is no mention of hail.
> > >
> > > The problem with the slices is that they're not combined. Or is 
> > > there a resource that graphically shows this combined 
> data somewhere 
> > > that I'm unaware of.
> > >
> > > With this low pressure zone hovering over Texas, I've 
> been enjoying 
> > > watching the storms and comparing the various tools out there.
> > > Yesterday, I sent an email to someone pointing out a storm where 
> > > there seemed to be a very strong local difference in relative 
> > > velocities. I suggested that maybe it would produce a 
> tornado. Half 
> > > an hour later, there was a tornado warning from the same storm, 
> > > somewhat north of Fredericksburg.
> > >
> > > On 5/1/07, Evan Bookbinder <Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov> wrote:
> > > > Just to avoid any confusion in Victor's post, there is no
> > > correlation
> > > > between VIL and hail probability/size...the latter 
> variables come
> > >
> > > ... this seems to have been cut off. Did you intend more?
> > >
> > > > VIL is a vertical integration (summation) of the amount of 
> > > > reflectivity returns over a given "pixel". Its usefullness
> > > is really
> > > > aged in an era where we have quick acess to the various
> > > tilts/slices
> > > > from the radar, but was used as a quick glance to find the
> > > 'worst' heavy rain producers quickly.
> > > >
> > > > Max values really depend on how VIL is calculated. 
> Wunderground is 
> > > > using an averaged 1x1 sq. km pixel with a 58 dBZ cap in the VIL 
> > > > calculation. Values of 80-100 would be seen with really
> > > deep/intense
> > > > storms in the summer. 71 is very high.
> > > >
> > > > Evan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> > > > > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf
> > > Of Victor
> > > > > Engel
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:56 PM
> > > > > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> > > > > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> > > > >
> > > > > What I meant was VIL (vertically integrated liquid). 
> The storm 
> > > > > currently at 71 Kg/m^2 is predicted by weatherunderground
> > > to have a
> > > > > 100% chance of producing damaging hail with size up to
> > > 2.75 inches.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5/1/07, Victor Engel <brillig at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I hope this isn't too far off-topic. I've just recently
> > > > > discovered the
> > > > > > wonderful animated radar images provided on 
> weatherunderground.
> > > > > > Currently there are some storms exceeding the scale, which
> > > > > maxes out
> > > > > > at 70 Kg/m^2. Oh, wait a minute. The scale just added
> > > > > another 5 Kg. I
> > > > > > guess it's an adaptive scale. How high do these moisture
> > > > > readings get?
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > wxqc mailing list
> > > > > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To 
> unsubcribe or 
> > > > > change delivery options, please go to:
> > > > > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> > > > >
> > > > > The contents of this message are the responsibility 
> of the author.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > wxqc mailing list
> > > > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To 
> unsubcribe or 
> > > > change delivery options, please go to:
> > > > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> > > >
> > > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of 
> the author.
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > wxqc mailing list
> > > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or 
> > > change delivery options, please go to:
> > > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> > >
> > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wxqc mailing list
> > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or 
> > change delivery options, please go to:
> > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> >
> > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe 
> or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> 
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> 


From brillig at gmail.com  Wed May  2 21:08:48 2007
From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 21:08:48 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Moisture Content
In-Reply-To: <001a01c78d26$4084b0e0$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
References: <e0e999680705011653t1abd1c06r6155c4ae9ac809b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<e0e999680705011656k5d9a4eal662f04ff4e5de63@mail.gmail.com>
	<017801c78c4e$35526b00$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
	<e0e999680705021731x5e6e2471k661bfd843e2f8191@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501c78d1d$19d05480$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
	<e0e999680705021810y67a6abbah6aada005db01a241@mail.gmail.com>
	<001a01c78d26$4084b0e0$6601a8c0@stormalerthp>
Message-ID: <e0e999680705021908q7143a1e0t4cfc3f822a66ddef@mail.gmail.com>

OK. I didn't know if you meant worst weather or that the composite
tool is the worst tool.

On 5/2/07, Evan Bookbinder <Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov> wrote:
> Worst-case means what it sounds like. Over a given 1km x 1km pixel, the
> composite reflectivity plots the highest reflectivity found at any slice
> above that pixel.
>
> HTH,
> Evan
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of
> > Victor Engel
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 8:10 PM
> > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> >
> > What do you mean "worst-case"?
> >
> > BTW, a 99 Kg/m^2 storm just popped up.
> >
> > On 5/2/07, Evan Bookbinder <Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov> wrote:
> > > The "combination of slices" in a worst-case sense is the Composite
> > > Reflectivity product.
> > >
> > > Evan
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> > > > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf
> > Of Victor
> > > > Engel
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 7:31 PM
> > > > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> > > > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> > > >
> > > > Right. Didn't mean to confuse. Right now there is a storm
> > reading 84
> > > > Kg/m^2, and there is no mention of hail.
> > > >
> > > > The problem with the slices is that they're not combined. Or is
> > > > there a resource that graphically shows this combined
> > data somewhere
> > > > that I'm unaware of.
> > > >
> > > > With this low pressure zone hovering over Texas, I've
> > been enjoying
> > > > watching the storms and comparing the various tools out there.
> > > > Yesterday, I sent an email to someone pointing out a storm where
> > > > there seemed to be a very strong local difference in relative
> > > > velocities. I suggested that maybe it would produce a
> > tornado. Half
> > > > an hour later, there was a tornado warning from the same storm,
> > > > somewhat north of Fredericksburg.
> > > >
> > > > On 5/1/07, Evan Bookbinder <Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov> wrote:
> > > > > Just to avoid any confusion in Victor's post, there is no
> > > > correlation
> > > > > between VIL and hail probability/size...the latter
> > variables come
> > > >
> > > > ... this seems to have been cut off. Did you intend more?
> > > >
> > > > > VIL is a vertical integration (summation) of the amount of
> > > > > reflectivity returns over a given "pixel". Its usefullness
> > > > is really
> > > > > aged in an era where we have quick acess to the various
> > > > tilts/slices
> > > > > from the radar, but was used as a quick glance to find the
> > > > 'worst' heavy rain producers quickly.
> > > > >
> > > > > Max values really depend on how VIL is calculated.
> > Wunderground is
> > > > > using an averaged 1x1 sq. km pixel with a 58 dBZ cap in the VIL
> > > > > calculation. Values of 80-100 would be seen with really
> > > > deep/intense
> > > > > storms in the summer. 71 is very high.
> > > > >
> > > > > Evan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> > > > > > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf
> > > > Of Victor
> > > > > > Engel
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:56 PM
> > > > > > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Moisture Content
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What I meant was VIL (vertically integrated liquid).
> > The storm
> > > > > > currently at 71 Kg/m^2 is predicted by weatherunderground
> > > > to have a
> > > > > > 100% chance of producing damaging hail with size up to
> > > > 2.75 inches.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 5/1/07, Victor Engel <brillig at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > I hope this isn't too far off-topic. I've just recently
> > > > > > discovered the
> > > > > > > wonderful animated radar images provided on
> > weatherunderground.
> > > > > > > Currently there are some storms exceeding the scale, which
> > > > > > maxes out
> > > > > > > at 70 Kg/m^2. Oh, wait a minute. The scale just added
> > > > > > another 5 Kg. I
> > > > > > > guess it's an adaptive scale. How high do these moisture
> > > > > > readings get?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > wxqc mailing list
> > > > > > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To
> > unsubcribe or
> > > > > > change delivery options, please go to:
> > > > > > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The contents of this message are the responsibility
> > of the author.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > wxqc mailing list
> > > > > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To
> > unsubcribe or
> > > > > change delivery options, please go to:
> > > > > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> > > > >
> > > > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of
> > the author.
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > wxqc mailing list
> > > > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or
> > > > change delivery options, please go to:
> > > > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> > > >
> > > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > wxqc mailing list
> > > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or
> > > change delivery options, please go to:
> > > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> > >
> > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wxqc mailing list
> > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe
> > or change delivery options, please go to:
> > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> >
> > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>

From weatherok at pldi.net  Thu May  3 12:05:05 2007
From: weatherok at pldi.net (weatherok at pldi.net)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 12:05:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [wxqc] KCLK now 6 degrees too low - NWS gives a youknowwhat?
Message-ID: <1375.85.216.118.181.1178211905.squirrel@85.216.118.181>

Hi,

I'm somewhat surprises about the sloppy approach of NWS towards crappy
quality of weather data in the AWOS network. Months ago I have learned
that KCLK is not a real NOAA station but somehow yes, at that time i t was
about 4 degrees too low. Meanwhile the temp sensor is running away to a 6
degree error, but either the airport or Vaisala (I've been told it's their
sensors) or the NWS or all people involved don't care.

Almost bizarre how motivated amateurs are to elimate their "Gladstone
errors" when we see a really bad "official" station delivering that amount
of bad data.

This problem has been discussed here a while ago, but obviously without
the least bit of consequences - surprisingly for me. What do you folks
think?

Thanks

jk


From eholmes at aeneas.net  Thu May  3 12:19:42 2007
From: eholmes at aeneas.net (Eddie Holmes)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 12:19:42 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] KCLK now 6 degrees too low - NWS gives a youknowwhat?
In-Reply-To: <1375.85.216.118.181.1178211905.squirrel@85.216.118.181>
Message-ID: <000001c78da7$3e777720$0f13a8c0@Eddie>

When I've inquired about similar situations, I've been told it's the FAA's
baby! 

 

Bureaucratic wheels turn slowly! 

-Eddie

 

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
[mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of
weatherok at pldi.net
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 12:05 PM
To: wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
Subject: [wxqc] KCLK now 6 degrees too low - NWS gives a youknowwhat?

 

Hi,

 

I'm somewhat surprises about the sloppy approach of NWS towards crappy

quality of weather data in the AWOS network. Months ago I have learned

that KCLK is not a real NOAA station but somehow yes, at that time i t was

about 4 degrees too low. Meanwhile the temp sensor is running away to a 6

degree error, but either the airport or Vaisala (I've been told it's their

sensors) or the NWS or all people involved don't care.

 

Almost bizarre how motivated amateurs are to elimate their "Gladstone

errors" when we see a really bad "official" station delivering that amount

of bad data.

 

This problem has been discussed here a while ago, but obviously without

the least bit of consequences - surprisingly for me. What do you folks

think?

 

Thanks

 

jk

 

_______________________________________________

wxqc mailing list

Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net

To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:

http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc

 

The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.

 

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From Djeerings at tampabay.rr.com  Thu May  3 17:22:48 2007
From: Djeerings at tampabay.rr.com (Don Jeerings)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:22:48 -0400
Subject: [wxqc] KCLK now 6 degrees too low - NWS gives a youknowwhat?
References: <000001c78da7$3e777720$0f13a8c0@Eddie>
Message-ID: <001901c78dd1$94c79ea0$6401a8c0@donscomputer>

I am not an employee of the FAA but I am a member of the FAASTEAM see www.faasafety.gov  and I have some input to the system. Washington has been watching the data from our CWOP stations and seeing much better quality than the AWOS is  presenting. They are asking question. Compare KLAL and  CW7718 for an example. Some of these WX stations are municipal owned. I was not able to locate the KCLK station but If they are broadcasting improper data, I may be able to call some attention to it. It is germane to flight safety
Don  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Eddie Holmes 
  To: 'Discussion of weather data quality issues' 
  Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 1:19 PM
  Subject: Re: [wxqc] KCLK now 6 degrees too low - NWS gives a youknowwhat?


  When I've inquired about similar situations, I've been told it's the FAA's baby! 

   

  Bureaucratic wheels turn slowly! 

  -Eddie

   

   

   

   

  -----Original Message-----
  From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of weatherok at pldi.net
  Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2007 12:05 PM
  To: wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
  Subject: [wxqc] KCLK now 6 degrees too low - NWS gives a youknowwhat?

   

  Hi,

   

  I'm somewhat surprises about the sloppy approach of NWS towards crappy

  quality of weather data in the AWOS network. Months ago I have learned

  that KCLK is not a real NOAA station but somehow yes, at that time i t was

  about 4 degrees too low. Meanwhile the temp sensor is running away to a 6

  degree error, but either the airport or Vaisala (I've been told it's their

  sensors) or the NWS or all people involved don't care.

   

  Almost bizarre how motivated amateurs are to elimate their "Gladstone

  errors" when we see a really bad "official" station delivering that amount

  of bad data.

   

  This problem has been discussed here a while ago, but obviously without

  the least bit of consequences - surprisingly for me. What do you folks

  think?

   

  Thanks

   

  jk

   

  _______________________________________________

  wxqc mailing list

  Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net

  To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:

  http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc

   

  The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.

   



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  _______________________________________________
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From elinkkila at yahoo.com  Thu May  3 18:56:20 2007
From: elinkkila at yahoo.com (Eleanor Linkkila)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 16:56:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [wxqc] Archived data in VWS
Message-ID: <741596.43621.qm@web56906.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

I have noticed that the archived data in my VWS does not have all of the parameters that I have selected.  It has high/low temps and barometric readings but that is it; no precipitation data.  It is in the other records.  Doesn't seem correct but maybe that is how the program is setup.  Wonder if anyone has complete records in their archived data.
   
  Eleanor, CW7448
   
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From brillig at gmail.com  Thu May  3 20:14:12 2007
From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 20:14:12 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Archived data in VWS
In-Reply-To: <741596.43621.qm@web56906.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <741596.43621.qm@web56906.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e0e999680705031814u3baf56ccj675e5e2ae63a1599@mail.gmail.com>

The information in the archive folder is abbreviated data. The
complete information seems to be in 2007dbase.csv in the data
directory. That's good enough for me. When I found that .csv database,
I didn't worry so much about the other since I can create my own.

On 5/3/07, Eleanor Linkkila <elinkkila at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have noticed that the archived data in my VWS does not have all of the
> parameters that I have selected.  It has high/low temps and barometric
> readings but that is it; no precipitation data.  It is in the other records.
>  Doesn't seem correct but maybe that is how the program is setup.  Wonder if
> anyone has complete records in their archived data.
>
> Eleanor, CW7448
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>

From Weather at JaxWeather.net  Thu May  3 20:24:38 2007
From: Weather at JaxWeather.net (Bob Johnson)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 21:24:38 -0400
Subject: [wxqc] Weather data quality report for C2703 on 2007-05-03 --
	please check warning
In-Reply-To: <20070504011546.28096.qmail@charon.gladstonefamily.net>
References: <20070504011546.28096.qmail@charon.gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID: <fdcaeff70705031824n21f2a888pc646d1f275e8272f@mail.gmail.com>

"WARNING: No data has been seen from your station in the last 0 day(s)."

Just got this, another glitch?

-Bob

On 4 May 2007 01:15:46 -0000, Weather Quality
<weather-qc at nospam.gladstonefamily.net> wrote:
> WARNING: No data has been seen from your station in the last 0 day(s).
> Please check to see if your data is being received at findu.
> http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?call=CW2703 . Check your
> information at http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C2703
>
> If you have checked your information, and believe that it is correct,
> then please contact <weather-qc at nospam.gladstonefamily.net>.
>
> Graphs: http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/qchart/C2703?date=20070504
>
> For more information about quality checking, then visit http://www.wxqa.com/
> To discuss, sign up to WXQC at http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> To receive these emails in HTML, just click the link
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/cgi-bin/weather-qc.pl?act=html&pwd=4125b8bbda
>
> To stop this email, just click the link
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/cgi-bin/weather-qc.pl?act=unsub&pwd=4125b8bbda
>


-- 
JaxWeather.net
Jacksonville, Fl (Lakeshore, 32205) Local Weather
http://JaxWeather.net
-- 
JaxFountain.com
Dedicated to showcasing and preserving Friendship Fountain
http://JaxFountain.com
--
WolfStalks Network Properties
http://WolfStalks.com

From whitworth at gmail.com  Thu May  3 20:49:34 2007
From: whitworth at gmail.com (Darryl Whitworth)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 18:49:34 -0700
Subject: [wxqc] Weather data quality report for C2703 on 2007-05-03 --
	please check warning
In-Reply-To: <fdcaeff70705031824n21f2a888pc646d1f275e8272f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070504011546.28096.qmail@charon.gladstonefamily.net>
	<fdcaeff70705031824n21f2a888pc646d1f275e8272f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5e5bd5c30705031849p356f2c35id7715c3c294b683f@mail.gmail.com>

Exact same error here!

Darryl
CW7816


On 5/3/07, Bob Johnson <Weather at jaxweather.net> wrote:
>
> "WARNING: No data has been seen from your station in the last 0 day(s)."
>
> Just got this, another glitch?
>
> -Bob
>
> On 4 May 2007 01:15:46 -0000, Weather Quality
> <weather-qc at nospam.gladstonefamily.net> wrote:
> > WARNING: No data has been seen from your station in the last 0 day(s).
> > Please check to see if your data is being received at findu.
> > http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?call=CW2703 . Check your
> > information at http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C2703
> >
> > If you have checked your information, and believe that it is correct,
> > then please contact <weather-qc at nospam.gladstonefamily.net>.
> >
> > Graphs: http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/qchart/C2703?date=20070504
> >
> > For more information about quality checking, then visit
> http://www.wxqa.com/
> > To discuss, sign up to WXQC at
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> >
> > To receive these emails in HTML, just click the link
> >
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/cgi-bin/weather-qc.pl?act=html&pwd=4125b8bbda
> >
> > To stop this email, just click the link
> >
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/cgi-bin/weather-qc.pl?act=unsub&pwd=4125b8bbda
> >
>
>
> --
> JaxWeather.net
> Jacksonville, Fl (Lakeshore, 32205) Local Weather
> http://JaxWeather.net
> --
> JaxFountain.com
> Dedicated to showcasing and preserving Friendship Fountain
> http://JaxFountain.com
> --
> WolfStalks Network Properties
> http://WolfStalks.com
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>
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From philip at gladstonefamily.net  Thu May  3 20:52:23 2007
From: philip at gladstonefamily.net (Philip Gladstone)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 21:52:23 -0400
Subject: [wxqc] Weather data quality report for C2703 on 2007-05-03 --
 please check warning
In-Reply-To: <fdcaeff70705031824n21f2a888pc646d1f275e8272f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20070504011546.28096.qmail@charon.gladstonefamily.net>
	<fdcaeff70705031824n21f2a888pc646d1f275e8272f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <463A91D7.8010703@gladstonefamily.net>

I ran out of disk space in my /tmp partition.

Philip

Bob Johnson wrote:
> "WARNING: No data has been seen from your station in the last 0 day(s)."
> 
> Just got this, another glitch?
> 
> -Bob
> 
> On 4 May 2007 01:15:46 -0000, Weather Quality
> <weather-qc at nospam.gladstonefamily.net> wrote:
>> WARNING: No data has been seen from your station in the last 0 day(s).
>> Please check to see if your data is being received at findu.
>> http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?call=CW2703 . Check your
>> information at http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C2703
>>
>> If you have checked your information, and believe that it is correct,
>> then please contact <weather-qc at nospam.gladstonefamily.net>.
>>
>> Graphs: http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/qchart/C2703?date=20070504
>>
>> For more information about quality checking, then visit http://www.wxqa.com/
>> To discuss, sign up to WXQC at http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>>
>> To receive these emails in HTML, just click the link
>> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/cgi-bin/weather-qc.pl?act=html&pwd=4125b8bbda
>>
>> To stop this email, just click the link
>> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/cgi-bin/weather-qc.pl?act=unsub&pwd=4125b8bbda
>>
> 
> 
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From brillig at gmail.com  Thu May  3 20:55:32 2007
From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 20:55:32 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Weather data quality report for C2703 on 2007-05-03 --
	please check warning
In-Reply-To: <463A91D7.8010703@gladstonefamily.net>
References: <20070504011546.28096.qmail@charon.gladstonefamily.net>
	<fdcaeff70705031824n21f2a888pc646d1f275e8272f@mail.gmail.com>
	<463A91D7.8010703@gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID: <e0e999680705031855s1ffd0bc6he82e1c7d1ee5ddd7@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/3/07, Philip Gladstone <philip at gladstonefamily.net> wrote:
> I ran out of disk space in my /tmp partition.
>

I hate it when that happens! <G>

From philip at gladstonefamily.net  Thu May  3 20:55:35 2007
From: philip at gladstonefamily.net (Philip Gladstone)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 21:55:35 -0400
Subject: [wxqc] Another glitch
Message-ID: <463A9297.50404@gladstonefamily.net>

I'm sorry -- but everybody got the 'no data message' again tonight. It 
was because I ran out of disk space in my /tmp partition owing to 
another job that was failing to clean up it's temporary files.

I'm rerunning the nightly report so things *should* get cleaned up.

It is surprising how much babysitting these systems need -- so maybe I 
should be adding more error checks....

Philip
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From Weather at JaxWeather.net  Thu May  3 21:16:35 2007
From: Weather at JaxWeather.net (Bob Johnson)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 22:16:35 -0400
Subject: [wxqc] Another glitch
In-Reply-To: <463A9297.50404@gladstonefamily.net>
References: <463A9297.50404@gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID: <fdcaeff70705031916k15b6b1cbja4de512366aa2977@mail.gmail.com>

Not a problem at all, just wanted to be sure :)

These things happen to us all...

Keep up the good work,
Bob

On 5/3/07, Philip Gladstone <philip at gladstonefamily.net> wrote:
> I'm sorry -- but everybody got the 'no data message' again tonight. It
> was because I ran out of disk space in my /tmp partition owing to
> another job that was failing to clean up it's temporary files.
>
> I'm rerunning the nightly report so things *should* get cleaned up.
>
> It is surprising how much babysitting these systems need -- so maybe I
> should be adding more error checks....
>
> Philip
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>
>


-- 
JaxWeather.net
Jacksonville, Fl (Lakeshore, 32205) Local Weather
http://JaxWeather.net
-- 
JaxFountain.com
Dedicated to showcasing and preserving Friendship Fountain
http://JaxFountain.com
--
WolfStalks Network Properties
http://WolfStalks.com

From elinkkila at yahoo.com  Fri May  4 04:45:26 2007
From: elinkkila at yahoo.com (Eleanor Linkkila)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 02:45:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [wxqc] Archived data in VWS
In-Reply-To: <e0e999680705031814u3baf56ccj675e5e2ae63a1599@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <432965.88511.qm@web56915.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Thanks, I did notice the data there.  Guess it is ok.  But when I asked Ed he said I had to have the parameters chosen for it appear and the parameters were chosen.  So I would guess it is a glitch in the program.  Now at least I know it isn't my setup and that I don't have to reinstall.
   
  Thanks again, Eleanor, CW7448

Victor Engel <brillig at gmail.com> wrote:
  The information in the archive folder is abbreviated data. The
complete information seems to be in 2007dbase.csv in the data
directory. That's good enough for me. When I found that .csv database,
I didn't worry so much about the other since I can create my own.

On 5/3/07, Eleanor Linkkila wrote:
> I have noticed that the archived data in my VWS does not have all of the
> parameters that I have selected. It has high/low temps and barometric
> readings but that is it; no precipitation data. It is in the other records.
> Doesn't seem correct but maybe that is how the program is setup. Wonder if
> anyone has complete records in their archived data.
>
> Eleanor, CW7448
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>
_______________________________________________
wxqc mailing list
Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc

The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.



     


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From brillig at gmail.com  Fri May  4 08:40:33 2007
From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 08:40:33 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Archived data in VWS
In-Reply-To: <432965.88511.qm@web56915.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
References: <e0e999680705031814u3baf56ccj675e5e2ae63a1599@mail.gmail.com>
	<432965.88511.qm@web56915.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <e0e999680705040640v76d6d7afyf08afaba27f482c@mail.gmail.com>

Just to be clear, I DO have precipitation data in my archive folder.

On 5/4/07, Eleanor Linkkila <elinkkila at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thanks, I did notice the data there.  Guess it is ok.  But when I asked Ed
> he said I had to have the parameters chosen for it appear and the parameters
> were chosen.  So I would guess it is a glitch in the program.  Now at least
> I know it isn't my setup and that I don't have to reinstall.
>
> Thanks again, Eleanor, CW7448
>
> Victor Engel <brillig at gmail.com> wrote:
> The information in the archive folder is abbreviated data. The
> complete information seems to be in 2007dbase.csv in the data
> directory. That's good enough for me. When I found that .csv database,
> I didn't worry so much about the other since I can create my own.
>
> On 5/3/07, Eleanor Linkkila wrote:
> > I have noticed that the archived data in my VWS does not have all of the
> > parameters that I have selected. It has high/low temps and barometric
> > readings but that is it; no precipitation data. It is in the other
> records.
> > Doesn't seem correct but maybe that is how the program is setup. Wonder if
> > anyone has complete records in their archived data.
> >
> > Eleanor, CW7448
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wxqc mailing list
> > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
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> >
> > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> >
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
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>

From elinkkila at yahoo.com  Fri May  4 09:34:54 2007
From: elinkkila at yahoo.com (Eleanor Linkkila)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 07:34:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [wxqc] Archived data in VWS
In-Reply-To: <e0e999680705040640v76d6d7afyf08afaba27f482c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <302728.49262.qm@web56903.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Oh, guess I misunderstood.  Then there must be a problem with my program.  May I ask how you have the files set up just to make sure that I do have everything as it should be?  Can you think of anything that could be interfering with the data not being there.
   
  Thanks, Eleanor, CW7448
  

Victor Engel <brillig at gmail.com> wrote:
  Just to be clear, I DO have precipitation data in my archive folder.

On 5/4/07, Eleanor Linkkila wrote:
> Thanks, I did notice the data there. Guess it is ok. But when I asked Ed
> he said I had to have the parameters chosen for it appear and the parameters
> were chosen. So I would guess it is a glitch in the program. Now at least
> I know it isn't my setup and that I don't have to reinstall.
>
> Thanks again, Eleanor, CW7448
>
> Victor Engel 
wrote:
> The information in the archive folder is abbreviated data. The
> complete information seems to be in 2007dbase.csv in the data
> directory. That's good enough for me. When I found that .csv database,
> I didn't worry so much about the other since I can create my own.
>
> On 5/3/07, Eleanor Linkkila wrote:
> > I have noticed that the archived data in my VWS does not have all of the
> > parameters that I have selected. It has high/low temps and barometric
> > readings but that is it; no precipitation data. It is in the other
> records.
> > Doesn't seem correct but maybe that is how the program is setup. Wonder if
> > anyone has complete records in their archived data.
> >
> > Eleanor, CW7448
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wxqc mailing list
> > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> >
> > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
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_______________________________________________
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From sooner44 at valornet.com  Fri May  4 11:57:30 2007
From: sooner44 at valornet.com (Richard Engle)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 11:57:30 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] RH - CW4378
Message-ID: <000a01c78e6d$4d9469e0$a8791048@richardr55aq30>

For a while I have been getting the red x for my dew point readings. Today, at 1100 hours central time zone,  I used my sling  psychrometer to compare. My Davis Pro 2 read 70 F, dewpoint at 52 with humidity showing at 51%. The sling showed a dry bulb at 70 and wet bulb at 68 giving a RH of 90% and the dewpoint at 67. The 90% humidity was in line with the other stations around. Should I suspect a bad sensor on the Davis Instrument? 
Richard
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From mitch56329 at yahoo.com  Fri May  4 14:14:12 2007
From: mitch56329 at yahoo.com (Mitch Morberg)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 12:14:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [wxqc] RH - CW4378
In-Reply-To: <000a01c78e6d$4d9469e0$a8791048@richardr55aq30>
Message-ID: <6606.94878.qm@web50101.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Richard,

Most likely its the humidity sensor. Call Davis Technical Support: (510) 732-7814 and have them
send you a replacement sensor.

Good Luck

Mitch CW0288

--- Richard Engle <sooner44 at valornet.com> wrote:

> For a while I have been getting the red x for my dew point readings. Today, at 1100 hours
> central time zone,  I used my sling  psychrometer to compare. My Davis Pro 2 read 70 F, dewpoint
> at 52 with humidity showing at 51%. The sling showed a dry bulb at 70 and wet bulb at 68 giving
> a RH of 90% and the dewpoint at 67. The 90% humidity was in line with the other stations around.
> Should I suspect a bad sensor on the Davis Instrument? 
> Richard> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
> 
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.


Mitch's Automated Weather
http://www.mlmweather.com


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Expecting? Get great news right away with email Auto-Check. 
Try the Yahoo! Mail Beta.
http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_tools.html 

From bryce at azlab.net  Fri May  4 18:54:44 2007
From: bryce at azlab.net (Bryce Alexander)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 16:54:44 -0700
Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation shielding
Message-ID: <00ef01c78ea7$9a9e59a0$03371e0a@Artemis>

After reading all the material that the CWOP program references about solar
radiation shields I had a brainstorm for a different design. 

In essence it is a six inch pipe, open at either end, with the pipe set at
an angle such that it is oriented on a North/South plane with the north end
higher than the south end. Both ends of the pipe are cut at angles so that
no sun is able to enter the bottom half of the pipe regardless of the
seasonal angle of the sun's ecliptic. I used nylon screws to mount the
instruments to the inside of the pipe to prevent heat transmission from the
outside of the pipe through the screws.

Take a look at the Flickr images on
http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C7166  to see how my prototype is
constructed and to make sense of the above description. 

The thinking is, that because the north end of the pipe is elevated we will
get a chimney effect of the warmer air rising upward at the North end and
the cooler air "falling" out the south end of the pipe. The theory is that
there is very little chance of air stagnating in this configuration. 

One thing I noticed right away is that the temperature and humidity seems
much more dynamic (or in other words, more changes during a given time
frame) which seems to indicate that I am indeed reducing the incidence of
air stagnation I was seeing with a gill style solar shield. 

The one down side I see right now is that a driving rain from the North
might get the instrument package wet. I will have to create some kind of
barrier or hood that will not interfere with the convective flow. The nice
thing is that I believe this can remain passive (not fan aspirated) even
during the worst of the Arizona heat, we will see this summer.  I do notice
some slightly higher temps during the day, but they are not the same thing I
was seeing when I had a solar radiation problem. I would attribute that to
the microclimate of being between Stucco houses, with cinder block fences
and tile roof in proximity to the sensor. 

If anyone wants to go back into my historical data I added the shield on
April 21 and tweaked my humidity about four days ago. 

Let me know what you think, I welcome any suggestions or comments, positive
or negative.

 

Feel free to use this design for hobby or research purposes with proper
attribution, anything else by permission.

 

 

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From brillig at gmail.com  Fri May  4 19:45:55 2007
From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 19:45:55 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation
	shielding
In-Reply-To: <00ef01c78ea7$9a9e59a0$03371e0a@Artemis>
References: <00ef01c78ea7$9a9e59a0$03371e0a@Artemis>
Message-ID: <e0e999680705041745r33f33ae3sb43995a314a88c53@mail.gmail.com>

So the thermometer is INSIDE the tube?

On 5/4/07, Bryce Alexander <bryce at azlab.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> After reading all the material that the CWOP program references about solar
> radiation shields I had a brainstorm for a different design.
>
>  In essence it is a six inch pipe, open at either end, with the pipe set at
> an angle such that it is oriented on a North/South plane with the north end
> higher than the south end. Both ends of the pipe are cut at angles so that
> no sun is able to enter the bottom half of the pipe regardless of the
> seasonal angle of the sun's ecliptic. I used nylon screws to mount the
> instruments to the inside of the pipe to prevent heat transmission from the
> outside of the pipe through the screws.
>
>  Take a look at the Flickr images on
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C7166  to see how
> my prototype is constructed and to make sense of the above description.
>
>  The thinking is, that because the north end of the pipe is elevated we will
> get a chimney effect of the warmer air rising upward at the North end and
> the cooler air "falling" out the south end of the pipe. The theory is that
> there is very little chance of air stagnating in this configuration.
>
>  One thing I noticed right away is that the temperature and humidity seems
> much more dynamic (or in other words, more changes during a given time
> frame) which seems to indicate that I am indeed reducing the incidence of
> air stagnation I was seeing with a gill style solar shield.
>
>  The one down side I see right now is that a driving rain from the North
> might get the instrument package wet. I will have to create some kind of
> barrier or hood that will not interfere with the convective flow. The nice
> thing is that I believe this can remain passive (not fan aspirated) even
> during the worst of the Arizona heat, we will see this summer.  I do notice
> some slightly higher temps during the day, but they are not the same thing I
> was seeing when I had a solar radiation problem. I would attribute that to
> the microclimate of being between Stucco houses, with cinder block fences
> and tile roof in proximity to the sensor.
>
>  If anyone wants to go back into my historical data I added the shield on
> April 21 and tweaked my humidity about four days ago.
>
>  Let me know what you think, I welcome any suggestions or comments, positive
> or negative.
>
>
>
> Feel free to use this design for hobby or research purposes with proper
> attribution, anything else by permission.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>

From kn4lf at earthlink.net  Fri May  4 19:58:45 2007
From: kn4lf at earthlink.net (Thomas Giella KN4LF)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:58:45 -0400
Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation
	shielding
Message-ID: <001301c78eb0$8897da70$6701a8c0@thomas>

Hi Bryce,

I tried that design 20 years ago and it worked fairly well with forced 
aspiration but shortwave radiation and precipitation entry was a problem at 
certain times of the year. I ended up using a white plumbing PVC tee and a 
couple of 45 degree elbows and that kept shortwave radiation and 
precipitation out. For ventilation I used a DC 45 cfm computer type muffin 
fan, with the fan sucking fresh air in from the front and passing across the 
sensors before reaching the fan. This design worked as good as my louvered 
Stevenson Screen.

BTW the bottom of the shelter should be 4-5 feet above ground level.

Take Care,
Thomas Giella, KN4LF
Retired Meteorologist
Lakeland, FL, USA
kn4lf at earthlink.net

Lakeland, Florida Daily Climatological Weather Data Archive: 
http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf22.htm
Lakeland, Florida Real Time Weather Observations: 
http://www.kn4lf.com/index1.html
Harmful Man Induced Climate Change (Global Warming) Refuted: 
http://www.kn4lf.com/globalwarminglie.htm
FL/US Raw Weather Forecasting Resource Links: 
http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf13.htm
New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God: 
http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/audio/newevidence.htm

After reading all the material that the CWOP program references about solar
radiation shields I had a brainstorm for a different design.

In essence it is a six inch pipe, open at either end, with the pipe set at
an angle such that it is oriented on a North/South plane with the north end
higher than the south end. Both ends of the pipe are cut at angles so that
no sun is able to enter the bottom half of the pipe regardless of the
seasonal angle of the sun's ecliptic. I used nylon screws to mount the
instruments to the inside of the pipe to prevent heat transmission from the
outside of the pipe through the screws.

Take a look at the Flickr images on
http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C7166  to see how my prototype is
constructed and to make sense of the above description.

The thinking is, that because the north end of the pipe is elevated we will
get a chimney effect of the warmer air rising upward at the North end and
the cooler air "falling" out the south end of the pipe. The theory is that
there is very little chance of air stagnating in this configuration.

One thing I noticed right away is that the temperature and humidity seems
much more dynamic (or in other words, more changes during a given time
frame) which seems to indicate that I am indeed reducing the incidence of
air stagnation I was seeing with a gill style solar shield.

The one down side I see right now is that a driving rain from the North
might get the instrument package wet. I will have to create some kind of
barrier or hood that will not interfere with the convective flow. The nice
thing is that I believe this can remain passive (not fan aspirated) even
during the worst of the Arizona heat, we will see this summer.  I do notice
some slightly higher temps during the day, but they are not the same thing I
was seeing when I had a solar radiation problem. I would attribute that to
the microclimate of being between Stucco houses, with cinder block fences
and tile roof in proximity to the sensor.

If anyone wants to go back into my historical data I added the shield on
April 21 and tweaked my humidity about four days ago.

Let me know what you think, I welcome any suggestions or comments, positive
or negative.


From bryce at azlab.net  Fri May  4 22:59:14 2007
From: bryce at azlab.net (Bryce Alexander)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:59:14 -0700
Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar
	radiationshielding
In-Reply-To: <e0e999680705041745r33f33ae3sb43995a314a88c53@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <012a01c78ec9$c2716310$03371e0a@Artemis>

Correct; the humidity and temp sensors are inside the tube.

-----Original Message-----
<snip>

So the thermometer is INSIDE the tube?

<snip>


From philip at gladstonefamily.net  Sat May  5 09:45:02 2007
From: philip at gladstonefamily.net (Philip Gladstone)
Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 10:45:02 -0400
Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar
	radiation	shielding
In-Reply-To: <001301c78eb0$8897da70$6701a8c0@thomas>
References: <001301c78eb0$8897da70$6701a8c0@thomas>
Message-ID: <463C986E.6090703@gladstonefamily.net>

Thomas Giella KN4LF wrote:
> Hi Bryce,
>
> I tried that design 20 years ago and it worked fairly well with forced 
> aspiration but shortwave radiation and precipitation entry was a problem at 
> certain times of the year. I ended up using a white plumbing PVC tee and a 
> couple of 45 degree elbows and that kept shortwave radiation and 
> precipitation out. For ventilation I used a DC 45 cfm computer type muffin 
> fan, with the fan sucking fresh air in from the front and passing across the 
> sensors before reaching the fan. This design worked as good as my louvered 
> Stevenson Screen.
>
> BTW the bottom of the shelter should be 4-5 feet above ground level.
>
>
>   
I am now using a similar design -- an inverted J made out of PVC with a 
muffin fan. See the pictures on 
http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C0003

Philip


From philip at gladstonefamily.net  Sat May  5 09:53:13 2007
From: philip at gladstonefamily.net (Philip Gladstone)
Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 10:53:13 -0400
Subject: [wxqc] Flickr pictures -- a milestone reached
Message-ID: <463C9A59.1070002@gladstonefamily.net>

Today we reached the 1000 picture mark -- i.e. people have tagged this 
many images to appear on their site information pages. The other good 
news is that the rate has picked up recently with two or three new sites 
posting pictures each day.

The bad news is that the APIs that I use to get the pictures from flickr 
only work well up to around 2,000 images, and after that I have to do 
finer queries -- this means that soon I am going to have to fix my scripts!

Philip

From bryce at azlab.net  Sat May  5 10:03:34 2007
From: bryce at azlab.net (Bryce Alexander)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 08:03:34 -0700
Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for
	solarradiation	shielding
In-Reply-To: <463C986E.6090703@gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID: <008001c78f26$90ca1340$03371e0a@Artemis>

I had seriously considered using something similar to yours, but I am trying
to come up with something that is passive, even in Arizona, rather than run
power to the fan for aspiration. What makes my design unique is that by
placing it at an angle (similar to the angle of a solar panel) the
convective nature of the air will self aspirate the tube. An inverted J
design will trap warm air at the top and absolutely require fan aspiration.
What makes this angled design unique is that it shouldn't require the fan.

The fact that it is a tube is only a small part of the overall design.

-----Original Message-----
From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
[mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of Philip
Gladstone
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 7:45 AM
To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solarradiation
shielding

Thomas Giella KN4LF wrote:
> Hi Bryce,
>
> I tried that design 20 years ago and it worked fairly well with forced 
> aspiration but shortwave radiation and precipitation entry was a problem
at 
> certain times of the year. I ended up using a white plumbing PVC tee and a

> couple of 45 degree elbows and that kept shortwave radiation and 
> precipitation out. For ventilation I used a DC 45 cfm computer type muffin

> fan, with the fan sucking fresh air in from the front and passing across
the 
> sensors before reaching the fan. This design worked as good as my louvered

> Stevenson Screen.
>
> BTW the bottom of the shelter should be 4-5 feet above ground level.
>
>
>   
I am now using a similar design -- an inverted J made out of PVC with a 
muffin fan. See the pictures on 
http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C0003

Philip

_______________________________________________
wxqc mailing list
Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc

The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.


From sooner44 at valornet.com  Sat May  5 10:33:04 2007
From: sooner44 at valornet.com (Richard Engle)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 10:33:04 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] CW4378
Message-ID: <000a01c78f2a$ac480d30$a8791048@richardr55aq30>

Thanks, Davis is sending me a new sensor. Appreciate your help.

Richard Engle
CW4378
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From brillig at gmail.com  Sat May  5 11:50:40 2007
From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 11:50:40 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Flickr pictures -- a milestone reached
In-Reply-To: <463C9A59.1070002@gladstonefamily.net>
References: <463C9A59.1070002@gladstonefamily.net>
Message-ID: <e0e999680705050950x2467e519w4f9c935595bf842d@mail.gmail.com>

How does one tag images for this purpose? I know how to put flickr
images on the map. I've done so with Guitartown pictures I've taken.
Is there something additional for your site? I have to say that when I
use the link to find nearby pictures, it's usually pictures that have
no relevance to the weather -- just someone's random pictures.

On 5/5/07, Philip Gladstone <philip at gladstonefamily.net> wrote:
> Today we reached the 1000 picture mark -- i.e. people have tagged this
> many images to appear on their site information pages. The other good
> news is that the rate has picked up recently with two or three new sites
> posting pictures each day.
>
> The bad news is that the APIs that I use to get the pictures from flickr
> only work well up to around 2,000 images, and after that I have to do
> finer queries -- this means that soon I am going to have to fix my scripts!
>
> Philip
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>

From philip at gladstonefamily.net  Sat May  5 14:58:13 2007
From: philip at gladstonefamily.net (Philip Gladstone)
Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 15:58:13 -0400
Subject: [wxqc] Flickr pictures -- a milestone reached
In-Reply-To: <e0e999680705050950x2467e519w4f9c935595bf842d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <463C9A59.1070002@gladstonefamily.net>
	<e0e999680705050950x2467e519w4f9c935595bf842d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <463CE1D5.8010905@gladstonefamily.net>

Victor Engel wrote:
> How does one tag images for this purpose? I know how to put flickr
> images on the map. I've done so with Guitartown pictures I've taken.
> Is there something additional for your site? I have to say that when I
> use the link to find nearby pictures, it's usually pictures that have
> no relevance to the weather -- just someone's random pictures.
>
>   
On the station information page (i.e. the /site/Cxxxx page), there are 
instructions of what to do. Essentially, you need to add two tags: 
'wxtagged' and 'wx:cwop=cxxxx' to each picture where cxxxx is your five 
letter id. If you have an axxxx id, then you can use that as well.

Once you do this, then your pictures show up by default without anybody 
needing to click on 'find pictures'.

Philip

From ikishk+wxqc at gmail.com  Sat May  5 15:53:13 2007
From: ikishk+wxqc at gmail.com (Isaac Kishk (CW6261))
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 15:53:13 -0500
Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solarradiation
	shielding
In-Reply-To: <008001c78f26$90ca1340$03371e0a@Artemis>
References: <463C986E.6090703@gladstonefamily.net>
	<008001c78f26$90ca1340$03371e0a@Artemis>
Message-ID: <f1559b000705051353i6013647ft13c08b32de37aa16@mail.gmail.com>

I tried passive in texas, but the sun heated up the tube so much it
altered the readings more than it caused a natural chimney effect.  I
even tried a double tube .. where the outside 3" tube was black, the
inside 3" tube was white w/ the instruments inside the 2", same
problem (not as bad though).  In the end I went w/ a 12v fan running
around 8.5v off a battery and solar panel.
http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C6261

(i need to relocate the panel so it kicks on earlier, as you can tell
by the graphs)

On 5/5/07, Bryce Alexander <bryce at azlab.net> wrote:
> I had seriously considered using something similar to yours, but I am trying
> to come up with something that is passive, even in Arizona, rather than run
> power to the fan for aspiration. What makes my design unique is that by
> placing it at an angle (similar to the angle of a solar panel) the
> convective nature of the air will self aspirate the tube. An inverted J
> design will trap warm air at the top and absolutely require fan aspiration.
> What makes this angled design unique is that it shouldn't require the fan.
>
> The fact that it is a tube is only a small part of the overall design.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of Philip
> Gladstone
> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 7:45 AM
> To: Discussion of weather data quality issues
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solarradiation
> shielding
>
> Thomas Giella KN4LF wrote:
> > Hi Bryce,
> >
> > I tried that design 20 years ago and it worked fairly well with forced
> > aspiration but shortwave radiation and precipitation entry was a problem
> at
> > certain times of the year. I ended up using a white plumbing PVC tee and a
>
> > couple of 45 degree elbows and that kept shortwave radiation and
> > precipitation out. For ventilation I used a DC 45 cfm computer type muffin
>
> > fan, with the fan sucking fresh air in from the front and passing across
> the
> > sensors before reaching the fan. This design worked as good as my louvered
>
> > Stevenson Screen.
> >
> > BTW the bottom of the shelter should be 4-5 feet above ground level.
> >
> >
> >
> I am now using a similar design -- an inverted J made out of PVC with a
> muffin fan. See the pictures on
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C0003
>
> Philip
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>
> _______________________________________________
> wxqc mailing list
> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to:
> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc
>
> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.
>


-- 
www.kishk.org

From wa4ikq at nevets.oau.org  Sat May  5 15:55:02 2007
From: wa4ikq at nevets.oau.org (Geoffrey Dick)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 16:55:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solarradiation
	shielding
Message-ID: <m1HkRHS-000pDiC@nevets.oau.org>


Bryce,

Looking at your 28-day Day and Night Temperature errors, the readings 
are fairly good.   The lastest indication for Saturday was only -1.3
degrees in the day, and +1.7 deg at night.   

Are you game for trying an experiment to bring the day and night values
closer together?   Try wrapping the PVC with aluminum foil.

...................................................................

Thomas,

What does your Physics background tell you about white PVC piping in
regard to being a perfect reflector of solar radiation?  How much
thermal absorption does the PFC material generate?  Do you recall
how standard temperature radiation shields settled on a white color?  

...................................................................

ALL,

It may be a bit early to report, but over the last 12 days I have been
operating with strips of aluminum foil covering the outer surface of 
the gill vents of my radiation shield, and I have noted steady  
improvement in the CWOP 28-day day numbers without adjusting the 
controller offset.  

My 28-day numbers are posted at:
http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/AS140  see Temperature nos.

My numbers, for several months prior to these readings were 2 to 3
degrees of separation.

This experiment was installed in a manner to make it reversible, so
as to not damage the gill-vented radiation shield should I want to
return it to the original configuration.  I used a common white paste 
gluestick to fasten the 3/4-in wide strips of aluminum foil.

Kind regards,

Geoffrey Dick 
WA4IKQ  / AS140
Winter Park, FL

------------
> Subject: wxqc Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation shield
>
> From: "Bryce Alexander" <bryce at azlab.net>
> To: <wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 16:54:44 -0700
> Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation shielding
>
> After reading all the material that the CWOP program references about solar
> radiation shields I had a brainstorm for a different design. 
>
> In essence it is a six inch pipe, open at either end, with the pipe set at
> an angle such that it is oriented on a North/South plane with the north end
> higher than the south end. Both ends of the pipe are cut at angles so that
> no sun is able to enter the bottom half of the pipe regardless of the
> seasonal angle of the sun's ecliptic. I used nylon screws to mount the
> instruments to the inside of the pipe to prevent heat transmission from the
> outside of the pipe through the screws.
>
> Take a look at the Flickr images on
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C7166  to see how my prototype is
> constructed and to make sense of the above description. 
>
> The thinking is, that because the north end of the pipe is elevated we will
> get a chimney effect of the warmer air rising upward at the North end and
> the cooler air "falling" out the south end of the pipe. The theory is that
> there is very little chance of air stagnating in this configuration. 
>
> One thing I noticed right away is that the temperature and humidity seems
> much more dynamic (or in other words, more changes during a given time
> frame) which seems to indicate that I am indeed reducing the incidence of
> air stagnation I was seeing with a gill style solar shield. 
>
> The one down side I see right now is that a driving rain from the North
> might get the instrument package wet. I will have to create some kind of
> barrier or hood that will not interfere with the convective flow. The nice
> thing is that I believe this can remain passive (not fan aspirated) even
> during the worst of the Arizona heat, we will see this summer.  I do notice
> some slightly higher temps during the day, but they are not the same thing I
> was seeing when I had a solar radiation problem. I would attribute that to
> the microclimate of being between Stucco houses, with cinder block fences
> and tile roof in proximity to the sensor. 
>
> If anyone wants to go back into my historical data I added the shield on
> April 21 and tweaked my humidity about four days ago. 
>
> Let me know what you think, I welcome any suggestions or comments, positive
> or negative.
>
> Feel free to use this design for hobby or research purposes with proper
> attribution, anything else by permission.
>
> ---- 
>
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 19:45:55 -0500
> From: "Victor Engel" <brillig at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation
> 	shielding
>
> So the thermometer is INSIDE the tube?
>
> ----
>
> From: "Thomas Giella KN4LF" <kn4lf at earthlink.net>
> To: "a WXQC e-List" <wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:58:45 -0400
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation
> 	shielding
>
> Hi Bryce,
>
> I tried that design 20 years ago and it worked fairly well with forced 
> aspiration but shortwave radiation and precipitation entry was a problem at 
> certain times of the year. I ended up using a white plumbing PVC tee and a 
> couple of 45 degree elbows and that kept shortwave radiation and 
> precipitation out. For ventilation I used a DC 45 cfm computer type muffin 
> fan, with the fan sucking fresh air in from the front and passing across the 
> sensors before reaching the fan. This design worked as good as my louvered 
> Stevenson Screen.
>
> BTW the bottom of the shelter should be 4-5 feet above ground level.
>
> Take Care,
> Thomas Giella, KN4LF
> Retired Meteorologist
> Lakeland, FL, USA
> kn4lf at earthlink.net
>
> Lakeland, Florida Daily Climatological Weather Data Archive: 
> http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf22.htm
> Lakeland, Florida Real Time Weather Observations: 
> http://www.kn4lf.com/index1.html
> Harmful Man Induced Climate Change (Global Warming) Refuted: 
> http://www.kn4lf.com/globalwarminglie.htm
> FL/US Raw Weather Forecasting Resource Links: 
> http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf13.htm
> New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God: 
> http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/audio/newevidence.htm
>
> After reading all the material that the CWOP program references about solar
> radiation shields I had a brainstorm for a different design.
>
> In essence it is a six inch pipe, open at either end, with the pipe set at
> an angle such that it is oriented on a North/South plane with the north end
> higher than the south end. Both ends of the pipe are cut at angles so that
> no sun is able to enter the bottom half of the pipe regardless of the
> seasonal angle of the sun's ecliptic. I used nylon screws to mount the
> instruments to the inside of the pipe to prevent heat transmission from the
> outside of the pipe through the screws.
>
> Take a look at the Flickr images on
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C7166  to see how my prototype is
> constructed and to make sense of the above description.
>
> The thinking is, that because the north end of the pipe is elevated we will
> get a chimney effect of the warmer air rising upward at the North end and
> the cooler air "falling" out the south end of the pipe. The theory is that
> there is very little chance of air stagnating in this configuration.
>
> One thing I noticed right away is that the temperature and humidity seems
> much more dynamic (or in other words, more changes during a given time
> frame) which seems to indicate that I am indeed reducing the incidence of
> air stagnation I was seeing with a gill style solar shield.
>
> The one down side I see right now is that a driving rain from the North
> might get the instrument package wet. I will have to create some kind of
> barrier or hood that will not interfere with the convective flow. The nice
> thing is that I believe this can remain passive (not fan aspirated) even
> during the worst of the Arizona heat, we will see this summer.  I do notice
> some slightly higher temps during the day, but they are not the same thing I
> was seeing when I had a solar radiation problem. I would attribute that to
> the microclimate of being between Stucco houses, with cinder block fences
> and tile roof in proximity to the sensor.
>
> If anyone wants to go back into my historical data I added the shield on
> April 21 and tweaked my humidity about four days ago.
>
> Let me know what you think, I welcome any suggestions or comments, positive
> or negative.
>
> ----
>
> From: "Bryce Alexander" <bryce at azlab.net>
> 	<wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:59:14 -0700
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar
> 	radiationshielding
>
> Correct; the humidity and temp sensors are inside the tube.
>
> Original Message
> So the thermometer is INSIDE the tube?
>
> ----
>
> Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 10:45:02 -0400
> From: Philip Gladstone <philip at gladstonefamily.net>
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar
> 	radiation	shielding
>
> Thomas Giella KN4LF wrote:
> > Hi Bryce,
> >
> > I tried that design 20 years ago and it worked fairly well with forced 
> > aspiration but shortwave radiation and precipitation entry was a problem at 
> > certain times of the year. I ended up using a white plumbing PVC tee and a 
> > couple of 45 degree elbows and that kept shortwave radiation and 
> > precipitation out. For ventilation I used a DC 45 cfm computer type muffin 
> > fan, with the fan sucking fresh air in from the front and passing across the 
> > sensors before reaching the fan. This design worked as good as my louvered 
> > Stevenson Screen.
> >
> > BTW the bottom of the shelter should be 4-5 feet above ground level.
>   
> I am now using a similar design -- an inverted J made out of PVC with a 
> muffin fan. See the pictures on 
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C0003
>
> Philip
>
> ----
>
> From: "Bryce Alexander" <bryce at azlab.net>
> 	<wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 08:03:34 -0700
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for
> 	solarradiation	shielding
>
> I had seriously considered using something similar to yours, but I am trying
> to come up with something that is passive, even in Arizona, rather than run
> power to the fan for aspiration. What makes my design unique is that by
> placing it at an angle (similar to the angle of a solar panel) the
> convective nature of the air will self aspirate the tube. An inverted J
> design will trap warm air at the top and absolutely require fan aspiration.
> What makes this angled design unique is that it shouldn't require the fan.
>
> The fact that it is a tube is only a small part of the overall design.
>
> ----
>

From paulgrace at lookoutranch.com  Sat May  5 16:08:48 2007
From: paulgrace at lookoutranch.com (Paul Grace)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 14:08:48 -0700
Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solarradiationshielding
In-Reply-To: <m1HkRHS-000pDiC@nevets.oau.org>
References: <m1HkRHS-000pDiC@nevets.oau.org>
Message-ID: <002201c78f59$93369e40$0200a8c0@dell1500>

It seems that wrapping in shiny foil would reduce solar gain, which would
reduce the convection, which would defeat the purpose of the "chimney"  The
design is inherently flawed.  Any chimney effect is the direct result of
overheating the air, which is exactly what you're trying to avoid.  

Google for enclosure designs, and pick from there.  This isn't rocket
science.

-----Original Message-----
From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net
[mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Dick
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 13:55
To: wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net
Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for
solarradiationshielding


Bryce,

Looking at your 28-day Day and Night Temperature errors, the readings 
are fairly good.   The lastest indication for Saturday was only -1.3
degrees in the day, and +1.7 deg at night.   

Are you game for trying an experiment to bring the day and night values
closer together?   Try wrapping the PVC with aluminum foil.

...................................................................

Thomas,

What does your Physics background tell you about white PVC piping in regard
to being a perfect reflector of solar radiation?  How much thermal
absorption does the PFC material generate?  Do you recall how standard
temperature radiation shields settled on a white color?  

...................................................................

ALL,

It may be a bit early to report, but over the last 12 days I have been
operating with strips of aluminum foil covering the outer surface of the
gill vents of my radiation shield, and I have noted steady improvement in
the CWOP 28-day day numbers without adjusting the controller offset.  

My 28-day numbers are posted at:
http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/AS140  see Temperature nos.

My numbers, for several months prior to these readings were 2 to 3 degrees
of separation.

This experiment was installed in a manner to make it reversible, so as to
not damage the gill-vented radiation shield should I want to return it to
the original configuration.  I used a common white paste gluestick to fasten
the 3/4-in wide strips of aluminum foil.

Kind regards,

Geoffrey Dick
WA4IKQ  / AS140
Winter Park, FL

------------
> Subject: wxqc Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation shield
>
> From: "Bryce Alexander" <bryce at azlab.net>
> To: <wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 16:54:44 -0700
> Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation 
> shielding
>
> After reading all the material that the CWOP program references about 
> solar radiation shields I had a brainstorm for a different design.
>
> In essence it is a six inch pipe, open at either end, with the pipe 
> set at an angle such that it is oriented on a North/South plane with 
> the north end higher than the south end. Both ends of the pipe are cut 
> at angles so that no sun is able to enter the bottom half of the pipe 
> regardless of the seasonal angle of the sun's ecliptic. I used nylon 
> screws to mount the instruments to the inside of the pipe to prevent 
> heat transmission from the outside of the pipe through the screws.
>
> Take a look at the Flickr images on
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C7166  to see how my prototype 
> is constructed and to make sense of the above description.
>
> The thinking is, that because the north end of the pipe is elevated we 
> will get a chimney effect of the warmer air rising upward at the North 
> end and the cooler air "falling" out the south end of the pipe. The 
> theory is that there is very little chance of air stagnating in this
configuration.
>
> One thing I noticed right away is that the temperature and humidity 
> seems much more dynamic (or in other words, more changes during a 
> given time
> frame) which seems to indicate that I am indeed reducing the incidence 
> of air stagnation I was seeing with a gill style solar shield.
>
> The one down side I see right now is that a driving rain from the 
> North might get the instrument package wet. I will have to create some 
> kind of barrier or hood that will not interfere with the convective 
> flow. The nice thing is that I believe this can remain passive (not 
> fan aspirated) even during the worst of the Arizona heat, we will see 
> this summer.  I do notice some slightly higher temps during the day, 
> but they are not the same thing I was seeing when I had a solar 
> radiation problem. I would attribute that to the microclimate of being 
> between Stucco houses, with cinder block fences and tile roof in proximity
to the sensor.
>
> If anyone wants to go back into my historical data I added the shield 
> on April 21 and tweaked my humidity about four days ago.
>
> Let me know what you think, I welcome any suggestions or comments, 
> positive or negative.
>
> Feel free to use this design for hobby or research purposes with 
> proper attribution, anything else by permission.
>
> ----
>
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 19:45:55 -0500
> From: "Victor Engel" <brillig at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation
> 	shielding
>
> So the thermometer is INSIDE the tube?
>
> ----
>
> From: "Thomas Giella KN4LF" <kn4lf at earthlink.net>
> To: "a WXQC e-List" <wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:58:45 -0400
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation
> 	shielding
>
> Hi Bryce,
>
> I tried that design 20 years ago and it worked fairly well with forced 
> aspiration but shortwave radiation and precipitation entry was a 
> problem at certain times of the year. I ended up using a white 
> plumbing PVC tee and a couple of 45 degree elbows and that kept 
> shortwave radiation and precipitation out. For ventilation I used a DC 
> 45 cfm computer type muffin fan, with the fan sucking fresh air in 
> from the front and passing across the sensors before reaching the fan. 
> This design worked as good as my louvered Stevenson Screen.
>
> BTW the bottom of the shelter should be 4-5 feet above ground level.
>
> Take Care,
> Thomas Giella, KN4LF
> Retired Meteorologist
> Lakeland, FL, USA
> kn4lf at earthlink.net
>
> Lakeland, Florida Daily Climatological Weather Data Archive: 
> http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf22.htm
> Lakeland, Florida Real Time Weather Observations: 
> http://www.kn4lf.com/index1.html
> Harmful Man Induced Climate Change (Global Warming) Refuted: 
> http://www.kn4lf.com/globalwarminglie.htm
> FL/US Raw Weather Forecasting Resource Links: 
> http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf13.htm
> New Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God: 
> http://www.cosmicfingerprints.com/audio/newevidence.htm
>
> After reading all the material that the CWOP program references about 
> solar radiation shields I had a brainstorm for a different design.
>
> In essence it is a six inch pipe, open at either end, with the pipe 
> set at an angle such that it is oriented on a North/South plane with 
> the north end higher than the south end. Both ends of the pipe are cut 
> at angles so that no sun is able to enter the bottom half of the pipe 
> regardless of the seasonal angle of the sun's ecliptic. I used nylon 
> screws to mount the instruments to the inside of the pipe to prevent 
> heat transmission from the outside of the pipe through the screws.
>
> Take a look at the Flickr images on
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C7166  to see how my prototype 
> is constructed and to make sense of the above description.
>
> The thinking is, that because the north end of the pipe is elevated we 
> will get a chimney effect of the warmer air rising upward at the North 
> end and the cooler air "falling" out the south end of the pipe. The 
> theory is that there is very little chance of air stagnating in this
configuration.
>
> One thing I noticed right away is that the temperature and humidity 
> seems much more dynamic (or in other words, more changes during a 
> given time
> frame) which seems to indicate that I am indeed reducing the incidence 
> of air stagnation I was seeing with a gill style solar shield.
>
> The one down side I see right now is that a driving rain from the 
> North might get the instrument package wet. I will have to create some 
> kind of barrier or hood that will not interfere with the convective 
> flow. The nice thing is that I believe this can remain passive (not 
> fan aspirated) even during the worst of the Arizona heat, we will see 
> this summer.  I do notice some slightly higher temps during the day, 
> but they are not the same thing I was seeing when I had a solar 
> radiation problem. I would attribute that to the microclimate of being 
> between Stucco houses, with cinder block fences and tile roof in proximity
to the sensor.
>
> If anyone wants to go back into my historical data I added the shield 
> on April 21 and tweaked my humidity about four days ago.
>
> Let me know what you think, I welcome any suggestions or comments, 
> positive or negative.
>
> ----
>
> From: "Bryce Alexander" <bryce at azlab.net>
> 	<wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:59:14 -0700
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar
> 	radiationshielding
>
> Correct; the humidity and temp sensors are inside the tube.
>
> Original Message
> So the thermometer is INSIDE the tube?
>
> ----
>
> Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 10:45:02 -0400
> From: Philip Gladstone <philip at gladstonefamily.net>
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar
> 	radiation	shielding
>
> Thomas Giella KN4LF wrote:
> > Hi Bryce,
> >
> > I tried that design 20 years ago and it worked fairly well with 
> > forced aspiration but shortwave radiation and precipitation entry 
> > was a problem at certain times of the year. I ended up using a white 
> > plumbing PVC tee and a couple of 45 degree elbows and that kept 
> > shortwave radiation and precipitation out. For ventilation I used a 
> > DC 45 cfm computer type muffin fan, with the fan sucking fresh air 
> > in from the front and passing across the sensors before reaching the 
> > fan. This design worked as good as my louvered Stevenson Screen.
> >
> > BTW the bottom of the shelter should be 4-5 feet above ground level.
>   
> I am now using a similar design -- an inverted J made out of PVC with 
> a muffin fan. See the pictures on
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C0003
>
> Philip
>
> ----
>
> From: "Bryce Alexander" <bryce at azlab.net>
> 	<wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 08:03:34 -0700
> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for
> 	solarradiation	shielding
>
> I had seriously considered using something similar to yours, but I am 
> trying to come up with something that is passive, even in Arizona, 
> rather than run power to the fan for aspiration. What makes my design 
> unique is that by placing it at an angle (similar to the angle of a 
> solar panel) the convective nature of the air will self aspirate the 
> tube. An inverted J design will trap warm air at the top and absolutely
require fan aspiration.
> What makes this angled design unique is that it shouldn't require the fan.
>
> The fact that it is a tube is only a small part of the overall design.
>
> ----
>
_______________________________________________
wxqc mailing list
Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or change
delivery options, please go to:
http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc

The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author.


From mitch56329 at yahoo.com  Sat May  5 17:20:08 2007
From: mitch56329 at yahoo.com (Mitch Morberg)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 15:20:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solarradiation
	shielding
In-Reply-To: <m1HkRHS-000pDiC@nevets.oau.org>
Message-ID: <10643.3658.qm@web50104.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Hi,

I have been experimenting with weather equipment for 30 years. I have found that just shielding
the existing radiation shield with 3/8" plywood painted gloss white with plenty of room for air
movement does an excellent job. See the link below for pictures.

http://www.mlmweather.com/Station.htm

Comparing my station CW0288 to the closest ASOS Stations

http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/qchart/C0288?date=&addnl=KLXL&addnl=KPNM&addnl=KSTC&addnl=KJMR&addnl=KCBG&addnl=KBRD&Add+to+charts=Add+to+charts&.cgifields=addnl

Mitch CW0288 http://www.mlmweather.com


--- Geoffrey Dick <wa4ikq at nevets.oau.org> wrote:

> 
> Bryce,
> 
> Looking at your 28-day Day and Night Temperature errors, the readings 
> are fairly good.   The lastest indication for Saturday was only -1.3
> degrees in the day, and +1.7 deg at night.   
> 
> Are you game for trying an experiment to bring the day and night values
> closer together?   Try wrapping the PVC with aluminum foil.
> 
> ...................................................................
> 
> Thomas,
> 
> What does your Physics background tell you about white PVC piping in
> regard to being a perfect reflector of solar radiation?  How much
> thermal absorption does the PFC material generate?  Do you recall
> how standard temperature radiation shields settled on a white color?  
> 
> ...................................................................
> 
> ALL,
> 
> It may be a bit early to report, but over the last 12 days I have been
> operating with strips of aluminum foil covering the outer surface of 
> the gill vents of my radiation shield, and I have noted steady  
> improvement in the CWOP 28-day day numbers without adjusting the 
> controller offset.  
> 
> My 28-day numbers are posted at:
> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/AS140  see Temperature nos.
> 
> My numbers, for several months prior to these readings were 2 to 3
> degrees of separation.
> 
> This experiment was installed in a manner to make it reversible, so
> as to not damage the gill-vented radiation shield should I want to
> return it to the original configuration.  I used a common white paste 
> gluestick to fasten the 3/4-in wide strips of aluminum foil.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Geoffrey Dick 
> WA4IKQ  / AS140
> Winter Park, FL
> 
> ------------
> > Subject: wxqc Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation shield
> >
> > From: "Bryce Alexander" <bryce at azlab.net>
> > To: <wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> > Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 16:54:44 -0700
> > Subject: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation shielding
> >
> > After reading all the material that the CWOP program references about solar
> > radiation shields I had a brainstorm for a different design. 
> >
> > In essence it is a six inch pipe, open at either end, with the pipe set at
> > an angle such that it is oriented on a North/South plane with the north end
> > higher than the south end. Both ends of the pipe are cut at angles so that
> > no sun is able to enter the bottom half of the pipe regardless of the
> > seasonal angle of the sun's ecliptic. I used nylon screws to mount the
> > instruments to the inside of the pipe to prevent heat transmission from the
> > outside of the pipe through the screws.
> >
> > Take a look at the Flickr images on
> > http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C7166  to see how my prototype is
> > constructed and to make sense of the above description. 
> >
> > The thinking is, that because the north end of the pipe is elevated we will
> > get a chimney effect of the warmer air rising upward at the North end and
> > the cooler air "falling" out the south end of the pipe. The theory is that
> > there is very little chance of air stagnating in this configuration. 
> >
> > One thing I noticed right away is that the temperature and humidity seems
> > much more dynamic (or in other words, more changes during a given time
> > frame) which seems to indicate that I am indeed reducing the incidence of
> > air stagnation I was seeing with a gill style solar shield. 
> >
> > The one down side I see right now is that a driving rain from the North
> > might get the instrument package wet. I will have to create some kind of
> > barrier or hood that will not interfere with the convective flow. The nice
> > thing is that I believe this can remain passive (not fan aspirated) even
> > during the worst of the Arizona heat, we will see this summer.  I do notice
> > some slightly higher temps during the day, but they are not the same thing I
> > was seeing when I had a solar radiation problem. I would attribute that to
> > the microclimate of being between Stucco houses, with cinder block fences
> > and tile roof in proximity to the sensor. 
> >
> > If anyone wants to go back into my historical data I added the shield on
> > April 21 and tweaked my humidity about four days ago. 
> >
> > Let me know what you think, I welcome any suggestions or comments, positive
> > or negative.
> >
> > Feel free to use this design for hobby or research purposes with proper
> > attribution, anything else by permission.
> >
> > ---- 
> >
> > Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 19:45:55 -0500
> > From: "Victor Engel" <brillig at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation
> > 	shielding
> >
> > So the thermometer is INSIDE the tube?
> >
> > ----
> >
> > From: "Thomas Giella KN4LF" <kn4lf at earthlink.net>
> > To: "a WXQC e-List" <wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net>
> > Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 20:58:45 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Opinions please -- New design for solar radiation
> > 	shielding
> >
> > Hi Bryce,
> >
> > I tried that design 20 years ago and it worked fairly well with forced 
> > aspiration but shortwave radiation and precipitation entry was a problem at 
> > certain times of the year. I ended up using a white plumbing PVC tee and a 
> > couple of 45 degree elbows and that kept shortwave radiation and 
> > precipitation out. For ventilation I used a DC 45 cfm computer type muffin 
> > fan, with the fan sucking fresh air in from the front and passing across the 
> > sensors before reaching the fan. This design worked as good as my louvered 
> > Stevenson Screen.
> >
> > BTW the bottom of the shelter should be 4-5 feet above ground level.
> >
> > Take Care,
> > Thomas Giella, KN4LF
> > Retired Meteorologist
> > Lakeland, FL, USA
> > kn4lf at earthlink.net
> >
> > Lakeland, Florida Daily Climatological Weather Data Archive: 
> > http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf22.htm
> > Lakeland, Florida Real Time Weather Observations: 
> > http://www.kn4lf.com/index1.html
> > Harmful Man Induced Climate Change (Global Warming) Refuted: 
> > http://www.kn4lf.com/globalwarminglie.htm
> > FL/US Raw Weather Forecasting Resource Links: 
> > http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf13.htm
> > New Scientific Evid