From dshelms at comcast.net Sat Dec 1 03:32:04 2007 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 04:32:04 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] Rain gauge placement question and who becomes a NWS observer? In-Reply-To: <20071130192028.A3E68B4D8A@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <20071130192028.A3E68B4D8A@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <47512A14.2030203@comcast.net> Hi Lew, The NWS 8" diameter "Standard Rain Gauge" (SRG) has a 22" rainfall capacity, 2" in the primary tube and 20" in the overflow area: http://www.crh.noaa.gov/iwx/program_areas/coop/8inch.php With a 23" rainfall, I'm guessing the observer dumped the accumulated rain sometime during the day to avoid overflow. The SRG funnel opening is about 2 feet above the ground. Hard to say if the distance to the tree from the SRG is greater than 4 times the distance from the tree trunk as the tree top AGL from the picture alone, but it could be close. COCORAHS is the program NWS utilizes for manual rainfall measurements and CWOP is the program by which NWS receives almost all personal weather station rainfall observations. Regards, Dave CW0351 webmaster wrote: >I was checking out Minnesota's rain measurement program and found >that Minnesota set a monthly and day record this past August. > >The observer was using a NWS-issued 8" diameter guage that can >measure 23" of rain. Seems that when the guage was getting near full >there would be splashing, reducing accuracy? Either way, his daily >total exceeded 23" so he or she must have emptied it at least once >during the day. > >The picture they show of the gauge makes me thing it is located too >near a tree? > >http://climate.umn.edu/img/flash_floods/hokah_location.jpg > >Also, if you are supposed to be measuring rain at 2' above the >ground, wouldn't a 23+" gauge be sitting on the ground? > >How is it determine who becomes a NWS observer? > >Is anyone else reporting to a state program in addition to CWOP, >Wunderground, etc? Here is a link to Minnesota's program which uses >the 4" guage that the CoCoRaHS program uses. > >http://climate.umn.edu/HIDENsityEdit/HIDENweb.htm > >Lew > > > >****************************************** >Lew - Weathermaster >lew at farmingtonweather.com >Farmington Weather >www.farmingtonweather.com >Farmington, Minnesota, USA > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net >To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: >http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > From robertmjones at bellsouth.net Sat Dec 1 09:17:57 2007 From: robertmjones at bellsouth.net (Robert M. Jones) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 15:17:57 +0000 Subject: [wxqc] Data Problems @ C9127 Message-ID: <120120071517.24746.47517B2500050ED7000060AA22230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9C0A020106039B9D0A0D019D@att.net> Can someone please explain why my QC temperature and RH graphs are not displaying correctly. Both graphs are spiking up and down and my Raw data does not reflect this. Additionally, my QC report indicated that I had 6 temperature errors with high temperature values which were between 14 and 17 degrees above the analyzed value. My Raw data for the reported times do not reflect the same "Observed" temperature (ie "Observed - 62 degrees" Raw data - 45 degrees). I do think that I had a solar heating problem which I fixed, but it is difficult to troubleshoot any problems when my graph is unreadable. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I have been trying to email Phillip but my mail keeps coming back as undeliverable. Thanks, Bob Jones - robertmjones at bellsouth.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071201/baebf615/attachment.html From jcopes at mtco.com Sat Dec 1 11:06:54 2007 From: jcopes at mtco.com (James Copes) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 11:06:54 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Lew and rain gauge position Message-ID: <475194AE.2030707@mtco.com> The rain gauge is mounted in the NWS issued mounting frame. It does appear to be close to the tree, but without seeing it in person it is difficult to actually make a judgment. In order to become a COOP Observer, you should contact your local NWS office and talk to the person in charge of Data Acquisition. They will schedule an appointment to come to your site and evaluate it. Being an observer can be demanding since you obligate yourself to making observations daily every day. I have been an observer for a little over a year now, and it can be a challenge making the entry every day. Jim From edith.thornburg at verizon.net Sat Dec 1 16:46:23 2007 From: edith.thornburg at verizon.net (Edith) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 16:46:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( Message-ID: <23895518.13272571196549183250.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> Well, my weather station computer fried 2 months ago. Go figure - in the same room, 3 computers - one plugged directly into the wall (DD's), one plugged into the surge supressor only portion of Tripplite UPS, and one plugged into the UPS of the Tripplite. Guess which one fried? So, last night my DH decided to be nice and fix where we had originally placed the rain gauge (too high - top of 25' flag pole). He invited the help of only our tractor, and of course,since the tractor doesn't have hands to catch the falling pole, it all came crashing down :( BOO HOO> So, now, no computer, and the rest of the Vantage Pro2 Plus is in the house. It actually looks OK for the most part. The bucket popped off (looks like the tabs are broken off), and the wind cups broke off. Also, the lid popped off the computer portion and solar panel - it was off all night long). The temperature readings and stuff still seem to be transmitting to the console. SO, finally my questions - should I send this to someone for a check-up? If yes, who? How much should I expect this to cost? Are there other things I should be looking at? Other questions I should be asking? THANKS SOOOO MUCH! Edith REALLY going through WITHDRAWL now!! From john at strandediniowa.com Sat Dec 1 17:02:46 2007 From: john at strandediniowa.com (John) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:02:46 +0000 Subject: [wxqc] Ice prevention on anemometers? In-Reply-To: <475194AE.2030707@mtco.com> References: <475194AE.2030707@mtco.com> Message-ID: The ice storm today froze up my anemometer for about 5 hours. Has anyone here devised a system to keep anemometers working during icy conditions? I have an idea involving manually pumping windshield de-icer fluid from ground level up onto the anemometer, but that might have a lot of bugs to work out. Anyone else heard of a solution for this problem? Does anyone sell an electric anemometer heater, like Davis has for the rain gauge? thx John CW8283 From aledoweather at frontiernet.net Sat Dec 1 19:41:27 2007 From: aledoweather at frontiernet.net (Aledo Weather) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 19:41:27 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Ice prevention on anemometers? In-Reply-To: References: <475194AE.2030707@mtco.com> Message-ID: <000501c83484$74fa3060$01fea8c0@keith443afa28c> John, It caught me off guard also. Last year I used a heat lamp to thaw mine out when the ice froze it up. I mounted it at an angle on the pole so snow/ice would not build up in it and only plugged it in long enough to thaw the gauge out. I've wondered about a heat tape, but don't believe that would work. If anyone else has some ideas I'd like to hear them also. Keith Clark CW2758 -----Original Message----- From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of John Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:03 PM To: Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: [wxqc] Ice prevention on anemometers? The ice storm today froze up my anemometer for about 5 hours. Has anyone here devised a system to keep anemometers working during icy conditions? I have an idea involving manually pumping windshield de-icer fluid from ground level up onto the anemometer, but that might have a lot of bugs to work out. Anyone else heard of a solution for this problem? Does anyone sell an electric anemometer heater, like Davis has for the rain gauge? thx John CW8283 _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. __________ NOD32 2696 (20071130) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com From stanzepa at sbcglobal.net Sat Dec 1 19:23:17 2007 From: stanzepa at sbcglobal.net (Stan Horzepa) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:23:17 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] Ice prevention on anemometers? In-Reply-To: References: <475194AE.2030707@mtco.com> Message-ID: <47520905.5010302@sbcglobal.net> Peet Bros. has a heated anemometer. 73, Stan, WA1LOU AP555 John wrote: > The ice storm today froze up my anemometer for about 5 hours. Has anyone here devised a system to keep anemometers working during icy conditions? > > I have an idea involving manually pumping windshield de-icer fluid from ground level up onto the anemometer, but that might have a lot of bugs to work out. Anyone else heard of a solution for this problem? Does anyone sell an electric anemometer heater, like Davis has for the rain gauge? > > thx > John > CW8283 > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > From steve at steveswww.com Sat Dec 1 20:26:46 2007 From: steve at steveswww.com (steveswww) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 19:26:46 -0700 Subject: [wxqc] Ice prevention on anemometers? References: <475194AE.2030707@mtco.com> Message-ID: <003401c8348a$c9c94080$05000100@SCLAPTOP> Hawaii does come to mind............. (couldn't help myself......sorry about that) Steve www.steveswww.com/utah.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "John" To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues" Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 4:02 PM Subject: [wxqc] Ice prevention on anemometers? > > The ice storm today froze up my anemometer for about 5 hours. Has anyone > here devised a system to keep anemometers working during icy conditions? > > I have an idea involving manually pumping windshield de-icer fluid from > ground level up onto the anemometer, but that might have a lot of bugs to > work out. Anyone else heard of a solution for this problem? Does anyone > sell an electric anemometer heater, like Davis has for the rain gauge? > > thx > John > CW8283 > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > From sam at wa4phy.net Sat Dec 1 19:22:48 2007 From: sam at wa4phy.net (Sam Drinkard) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:22:48 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] Ice prevention on anemometers? In-Reply-To: References: <475194AE.2030707@mtco.com> Message-ID: <475208E8.1030903@wa4phy.net> One thought would be to mount a fairly high wattage halogen light either above or below the cups and turn on when zr is expected, or some other type of heat source.. at least with a halogen light close by, I'd think it'd warm the black cups enough to prevent buildup. Sam From kdmiller at oldsgmail.com Sat Dec 1 19:28:20 2007 From: kdmiller at oldsgmail.com (Keith Miller) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:28:20 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( In-Reply-To: <23895518.13272571196549183250.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net]On Behalf Of Edith > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:46 PM > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( > > > SO, finally my questions - should I send this to someone for > a check-up? If yes, who? How much should I expect this to cost? > Are there other things I should be looking at? Other > questions I should be asking? I've read stories of them surviving getting toppeled during hurricanes and the like. Most likely it's just a little worse for wear. I would dissassemble it to check for any other broken parts, any of which you should be able to order from Davis. The cups are listed on their website at 15 bucks: http://www.davisnet.com/support/weather/parts.asp The rain buckets isn't listed, so you'll have to call them for that. Keith -- CW5250 => http://weather.stadhaugh.com From kdmiller at oldsgmail.com Sat Dec 1 22:34:41 2007 From: kdmiller at oldsgmail.com (Keith Miller) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 23:34:41 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net]On Behalf Of > Keith Miller > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 8:28 PM > To: 'Discussion of weather data quality issues' > Subject: Re: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( > > > The rain buckets isn't listed, so you'll have to call them for > that. > I do wish they'd put all the parts in one place... The rain bucket is 20 bucks: http://www.davisnet.com/weather/products/weather_product.asp?pnum=0734 2.025 Keith -- CW5250 => http://weather.stadhaugh.com From philip at gladstonefamily.net Sat Dec 1 23:07:56 2007 From: philip at gladstonefamily.net (Philip Gladstone) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 00:07:56 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] Data Problems @ C9127 In-Reply-To: <120120071517.24746.47517B2500050ED7000060AA22230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9C0A020106039B9D0A0D019D@att.net> References: <120120071517.24746.47517B2500050ED7000060AA22230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9C0A020106039B9D0A0D019D@att.net> Message-ID: <47523DAC.8070603@gladstonefamily.net> Bob, The reason that the graph looks screwy is because you recently changed your elevation. Until this change flows through to MADIS (on tuesdays), your graph will look screwy. The reasons behind this are due to the fact that the data that I get from MADIS is not station temperature, but a different temperature (which is adjusted for elevation). This happens sufficiently often that I feel the need to do something about it, but I'm not quite sure what. The 'obvious' thing would be to ignore the madis results until the wednesday after any elevation change. Actually, this might not be that difficult to implement. Philip Robert M. Jones wrote: > Can someone please explain why my QC temperature and RH graphs are not > displaying correctly. Both graphs are spiking up and down and my Raw > data does not reflect this. Additionally, my QC report indicated that I > had 6 temperature errors with high temperature values which were between > 14 and 17 degrees above the analyzed value. My Raw data for the reported > times do not reflect the same "Observed" temperature (ie "Observed - 62 > degrees" Raw data - 45 degrees). I do think that I had a solar heating > problem which I fixed, but it is difficult to troubleshoot any problems > when my graph is unreadable. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I > have been trying to email Phillip but my mail keeps coming back as > undeliverable. > > Thanks, > Bob Jones - robertmjones at bellsouth.net > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3389 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071202/eee88987/attachment.bin From philip at gladstonefamily.net Sat Dec 1 23:54:38 2007 From: philip at gladstonefamily.net (Philip Gladstone) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 00:54:38 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] Data Problems @ C9127 In-Reply-To: <47523DAC.8070603@gladstonefamily.net> References: <120120071517.24746.47517B2500050ED7000060AA22230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9C0A020106039B9D0A0D019D@att.net> <47523DAC.8070603@gladstonefamily.net> Message-ID: <4752489E.50305@gladstonefamily.net> Actually, I have just (I think) fixed this. You should now see no analysis until next wednesday when it should start clean. I realize that there are still issues with the non-cwop stations that I need to resolve. Philip Philip Gladstone wrote: > Bob, > > The reason that the graph looks screwy is because you recently changed > your elevation. Until this change flows through to MADIS (on tuesdays), > your graph will look screwy. The reasons behind this are due to the fact > that the data that I get from MADIS is not station temperature, but a > different temperature (which is adjusted for elevation). > > This happens sufficiently often that I feel the need to do something > about it, but I'm not quite sure what. The 'obvious' thing would be to > ignore the madis results until the wednesday after any elevation change. > Actually, this might not be that difficult to implement. > > Philip > > Robert M. Jones wrote: >> Can someone please explain why my QC temperature and RH graphs are not >> displaying correctly. Both graphs are spiking up and down and my Raw >> data does not reflect this. Additionally, my QC report indicated that I >> had 6 temperature errors with high temperature values which were between >> 14 and 17 degrees above the analyzed value. My Raw data for the reported >> times do not reflect the same "Observed" temperature (ie "Observed - 62 >> degrees" Raw data - 45 degrees). I do think that I had a solar heating >> problem which I fixed, but it is difficult to troubleshoot any problems >> when my graph is unreadable. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I >> have been trying to email Phillip but my mail keeps coming back as >> undeliverable. >> >> Thanks, >> Bob Jones - robertmjones at bellsouth.net >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> wxqc mailing list >> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net >> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: >> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >> >> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> wxqc mailing list >> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net >> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: >> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >> >> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3389 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071202/ff40a68e/attachment.bin From steve at dimse.com Sun Dec 2 08:26:24 2007 From: steve at dimse.com (Steve Dimse) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 09:26:24 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] Ice prevention on anemometers? In-Reply-To: <003401c8348a$c9c94080$05000100@SCLAPTOP> References: <475194AE.2030707@mtco.com> <003401c8348a$c9c94080$05000100@SCLAPTOP> Message-ID: <292FB199-0052-4882-A3D7-BF34CD2B436E@dimse.com> On Dec 1, 2007, at 9:26 PM, steveswww wrote: > Hawaii does come to mind............. > > (couldn't help myself......sorry about that) I thought I was safe in the Keys, until I saw this! http://flickr.com/photos/cayobo/2037359479/ Steve From robertmjones at bellsouth.net Sun Dec 2 07:53:26 2007 From: robertmjones at bellsouth.net (Robert M. Jones) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:53:26 +0000 Subject: [wxqc] Data Problems @ C9127 Message-ID: <120220071353.17017.4752B8D600083DEA0000427922230704929B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9C0A020106039B9D0A0D019D@att.net> Thanks Philip I spent a lot of time today researching, which is a good thing, and had come to the conculusion that NOAA was adding 2 degrees per 1000 feet to arrive at the POT Temp. (Sea Level). By doing this my Observed Temperature would appear to be elevated. Since I elevation is currently 3025 feet (925 meters) instead of 925 feet (282 meters) my observed temperature would be about 6 degrees off. I understand that the update is only performed on Wednesday and that the elevation correction will take place at that time. I believe that I now have my station within specification an will know more after Wednesday. Again thanks for your help. Bob Jones CW9127 -------------- Original message from Philip Gladstone : -------------- > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071202/7d615923/attachment.html From plantlover at ntelos.net Sun Dec 2 17:15:32 2007 From: plantlover at ntelos.net (Michele Fletcher) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 18:15:32 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( In-Reply-To: <23895518.13272571196549183250.JavaMail.root@vms124.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: Edith, I sent my 4 and a half year old VPro back to Davis in September for repairs... They charged $80.00 and updated the software, made the transmitter board repair and replaced everything which was showing wear... (a number of parts).... and recalibrated everything. The other option was for them to send me parts for the board alone which would have been $60.00. See contact info below. Ira was very helpful. Good Luck Michele CW8902 Contact Ira Pfeffer: irap at davisnet.com Ira Pfeffer Technical Support Davis Instruments 510-732-7814 www.davisnet.com -----Original Message----- From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net]On Behalf Of Edith Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:46 PM To: Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( Well, my weather station computer fried 2 months ago. Go figure - in the same room, 3 computers - one plugged directly into the wall (DD's), one plugged into the surge supressor only portion of Tripplite UPS, and one plugged into the UPS of the Tripplite. Guess which one fried? So, last night my DH decided to be nice and fix where we had originally placed the rain gauge (too high - top of 25' flag pole). He invited the help of only our tractor, and of course,since the tractor doesn't have hands to catch the falling pole, it all came crashing down :( BOO HOO> So, now, no computer, and the rest of the Vantage Pro2 Plus is in the house. It actually looks OK for the most part. The bucket popped off (looks like the tabs are broken off), and the wind cups broke off. Also, the lid popped off the computer portion and solar panel - it was off all night long). The temperature readings and stuff still seem to be transmitting to the console. SO, finally my questions - should I send this to someone for a check-up? If yes, who? How much should I expect this to cost? Are there other things I should be looking at? Other questions I should be asking? THANKS SOOOO MUCH! Edith REALLY going through WITHDRAWL now!! _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071202/19e0d225/attachment-0001.html From cowbuck at sbcglobal.net Sun Dec 2 16:36:29 2007 From: cowbuck at sbcglobal.net (cowbuck at sbcglobal.net) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 16:36:29 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Winter Rain Stats Message-ID: <000601c83533$c86e1180$594a3480$@net> Winter rain statistics won't be available on the WMII station we consider making available on the Weather Underground. Does a person just put a notice on their weather page, or can the rain stats be turned off for the winter when snow doesn't register in the rain gauge? Can a person still sign up if their rain stats are not accurate during the freezing months? Rich -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071202/fb7d5eae/attachment.html From Edith.Thornburg at verizon.net Sun Dec 2 20:27:37 2007 From: Edith.Thornburg at verizon.net (Edith Thornburg) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 21:27:37 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007d01c83554$14e7ce00$0301a8c0@BLACK> Thanks! Maybe this will make me read up on my station again and learn some new stuff. I still haven't figured out how to see results from yesterday or last week... I know you can do that somehow. Edith -----Original Message----- From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of Keith Miller Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 8:28 PM To: 'Discussion of weather data quality issues' Subject: Re: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( > -----Original Message----- > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net]On Behalf Of Edith > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:46 PM > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( > > > SO, finally my questions - should I send this to someone for > a check-up? If yes, who? How much should I expect this to cost? > Are there other things I should be looking at? Other > questions I should be asking? I've read stories of them surviving getting toppeled during hurricanes and the like. Most likely it's just a little worse for wear. I would dissassemble it to check for any other broken parts, any of which you should be able to order from Davis. The cups are listed on their website at 15 bucks: http://www.davisnet.com/support/weather/parts.asp The rain buckets isn't listed, so you'll have to call them for that. Keith -- CW5250 => http://weather.stadhaugh.com _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1164 - Release Date: 12/2/2007 11:30 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1164 - Release Date: 12/2/2007 11:30 AM From dshelms at comcast.net Sun Dec 2 23:37:07 2007 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:37:07 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] Winter Rain Stats In-Reply-To: <000601c83533$c86e1180$594a3480$@net> References: <000601c83533$c86e1180$594a3480$@net> Message-ID: <47539603.3010607@comcast.net> Hi Rich, Winter rain gauge freeze-up is a real program for many people. If you don't have a heated rain gauge, then its probably best to simply cover the gauge funnel during wintery precip with temperatures below 32F. The problem is with the first day above freezing after the snowstorm your rain gauge will measure "melt-out" rain which is erroneous. Some people use a pipe-wrap heater to gently warm the gauge above 32F so any snow that falls in the funnel will melt and be counted in the tipping bucket. I have a Peet heated gauge (a couple capacitors warm the interior of my "Pro" gauge). Even with a covered (non-reporting) rain gauge, you will still provide substantual useful data. Dave CW0351 cowbuck at sbcglobal.net wrote: > Winter rain statistics won?t be available on the WMII station we > consider making available on the Weather Underground. Does a person > just put a notice on their weather page, or can the rain stats be > turned off for the winter when snow doesn?t register in the rain > gauge? Can a person still sign up if their rain stats are not accurate > during the freezing months? > > Rich > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net >To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: >http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From philip at gladstonefamily.net Mon Dec 3 07:44:47 2007 From: philip at gladstonefamily.net (Philip Gladstone) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 08:44:47 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] 2000 images of weather stations now linked Message-ID: <4754084F.2070201@gladstonefamily.net> As of this morning, we passed the 2,000 picture mark of images that appear on the various site information pages. This does not include all the pictures in flickr tagged CWOP as some of those do not have the wx:cwop=xxxxx tag so that the scripts can figure out which station they belong to. There are also a bunch of pictures that I have found online that I have used as well (mostly of Antarctic stations). If you haven't uploaded your station pictures, then now is the time to do it! Beat the holiday rush! Philip -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3389 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature Url : http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071203/ad510529/attachment.bin From gerry.creager at tamu.edu Mon Dec 3 07:50:03 2007 From: gerry.creager at tamu.edu (Gerry Creager) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 07:50:03 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Winter Rain Stats In-Reply-To: <47539603.3010607@comcast.net> References: <000601c83533$c86e1180$594a3480$@net> <47539603.3010607@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4754098B.400@tamu.edu> Dave, all, Boy, how timely. I was at WFO/Ft Worth Saturday (it was SkyWarn appreciation day, I was in the area, and had an opportunity to take my kid over to see the neat stuff they do there) and one of a wide ranging area of discussions was on what happens when the hydrologists see the first day over 32F after a frozen precip event. Note that another problem they've encountered is when observers for the COOP program measure snowfall, see an inch of snow, record same, and send it in. There's a likelihood that some work will start happening with CWOP data for precip verification. When it does, getting bad data will make the effort harder than getting no data on precip. I like Dave's advice below (of course, he's also got a world of knowledge and experience, and qualifies as an Expert!) and second it. gerry Dave Helms wrote: > Hi Rich, > > Winter rain gauge freeze-up is a real program for many people. If you > don't have a heated rain gauge, then its probably best to simply cover > the gauge funnel during wintery precip with temperatures below 32F. The > problem is with the first day above freezing after the snowstorm your > rain gauge will measure "melt-out" rain which is erroneous. Some people > use a pipe-wrap heater to gently warm the gauge above 32F so any snow > that falls in the funnel will melt and be counted in the tipping bucket. > I have a Peet heated gauge (a couple capacitors warm the interior of my > "Pro" gauge). > > Even with a covered (non-reporting) rain gauge, you will still provide > substantual useful data. > > Dave > CW0351 > > cowbuck at sbcglobal.net wrote: > >> Winter rain statistics won?t be available on the WMII station we >> consider making available on the Weather Underground. Does a person >> just put a notice on their weather page, or can the rain stats be >> turned off for the winter when snow doesn?t register in the rain >> gauge? Can a person still sign up if their rain stats are not accurate >> during the freezing months? >> >> Rich >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> wxqc mailing list >> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net >> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: >> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >> >> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. >> > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. -- Gerry Creager -- gerry.creager at tamu.edu Texas Mesonet -- AATLT, Texas A&M University Cell: 979.229.5301 Office: 979.458.4020 FAX: 979.862.3983 Office: 1700 Research Parkway Ste 160, TAMU, College Station, TX 77843 From steve at mayos.net Mon Dec 3 09:56:10 2007 From: steve at mayos.net (Steve Mayo) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 07:56:10 -0800 Subject: [wxqc] Is this for real? Message-ID: <000001c835c5$072258a0$156709e0$@net> Hi All, I realize this is a weather forum to discuss weather stations and the like, but I came across this yesterday and after Googling as many ways as I could, decided that I would ask for your opinion. http://flickr.com/photos/cayobo/2037359479/ Is this a hoax? It definitely looks like a real article from the Key West Citizen. Any thoughts or opinions about this? Steve CW8878 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071203/f8c8a559/attachment-0001.html From steve at dimse.com Mon Dec 3 11:25:53 2007 From: steve at dimse.com (Steve Dimse) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 12:25:53 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] Is this for real? In-Reply-To: <000001c835c5$072258a0$156709e0$@net> References: <000001c835c5$072258a0$156709e0$@net> Message-ID: <32FBD914-A828-47CA-8F9F-2ED32E4179E1@dimse.com> On Dec 3, 2007, at 10:56 AM, Steve Mayo wrote: > Hi All, > > I realize this is a weather forum to discuss weather stations and > the like, but I came across this yesterday and after Googling as > many ways as I could, decided that I would ask for your opinion. > > http://flickr.com/photos/cayobo/2037359479/ > > Is this a hoax? It definitely looks like a real article from the Key > West Citizen. > > Any thoughts or opinions about this? > > Steve > CW8878 I'm pretty sure it is a hoax, it popped up on several KW blogs in the last couple weeks. It is definitely not from the Citizen, which uses a much simpler, more modern serif font for a masthead. There is no other Key West paper that starts with "The Key West" (e.g. there is a "Key West, The Newspaper" but no "The Key West Newspaper". Funny though! Steve From steve at softwx.com Mon Dec 3 11:25:40 2007 From: steve at softwx.com (Steve) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:25:40 -0700 Subject: [wxqc] Is this for real? In-Reply-To: <000001c835c5$072258a0$156709e0$@net> References: <000001c835c5$072258a0$156709e0$@net> Message-ID: <7EED9774D38E415F8DD67AAE4EB95194@shrek> This should answer your question http://flickr.com/photos/cayobo/2053272793/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Mayo To: wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net Sent: 12/03/2007 8:56 AM Subject: [wxqc] Is this for real? Hi All, I realize this is a weather forum to discuss weather stations and the like, but I came across this yesterday and after Googling as many ways as I could, decided that I would ask for your opinion. http://flickr.com/photos/cayobo/2037359479/ Is this a hoax? It definitely looks like a real article from the Key West Citizen. Any thoughts or opinions about this? Steve CW8878 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071203/7e8bb49f/attachment.html From brillig at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 11:49:41 2007 From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:49:41 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Is this for real? In-Reply-To: <7EED9774D38E415F8DD67AAE4EB95194@shrek> References: <000001c835c5$072258a0$156709e0$@net> <7EED9774D38E415F8DD67AAE4EB95194@shrek> Message-ID: This reminds me of a hoax that wasn't really a hoax the spread around about 10 years ago describing how aircraft carriers could be lined up in order to server as an emergency space shuttle landing platform. There was a lot of discussion about whether it was even possible. Finally, someone posted information that the document was really just a test document to test printer output or something like that. I just tried googling for the story and didn't find anything. Perhaps this went around before the internet really took off. It was probably on the Science echo or something similar. Victor On 12/3/07, Steve wrote: > > > This should answer your question > > http://flickr.com/photos/cayobo/2053272793/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Steve Mayo > To: wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > Sent: 12/03/2007 8:56 AM > Subject: [wxqc] Is this for real? > > > > > Hi All, > > > > I realize this is a weather forum to discuss weather stations and the like, > but I came across this yesterday and after Googling as many ways as I could, > decided that I would ask for your opinion. > > > > http://flickr.com/photos/cayobo/2037359479/ > > > > Is this a hoax? It definitely looks like a real article from the Key West > Citizen. > > > > Any thoughts or opinions about this? > > > > Steve > > CW8878 > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From wjl82871 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 3 11:44:35 2007 From: wjl82871 at yahoo.com (Bill L) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 09:44:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [wxqc] weatherlink 5.7.1 rain data on WU Message-ID: <711449.18703.qm@web36106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi folks!! Not sure if this is the place but I have looked elsewhere without any luck I have a weather monitor II transmitting to WU and CWOP. CWOP works fine (as I would guess). It looks like it (weatherlink) does not transmit rain data to WU?? Is this possible?? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From brillig at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 11:03:03 2007 From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 11:03:03 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Is this for real? In-Reply-To: <000001c835c5$072258a0$156709e0$@net> References: <000001c835c5$072258a0$156709e0$@net> Message-ID: I was thinking about this over the weekend. I suspect it's a hoax that's unprovable or difficult to prove for one reason. It very simply rarely gets that cold there. When was the last time it got as cold as 48 at Key West? Victor On 12/3/07, Steve Mayo wrote: > > > > > Hi All, > > > > I realize this is a weather forum to discuss weather stations and the like, > but I came across this yesterday and after Googling as many ways as I could, > decided that I would ask for your opinion. > > > > http://flickr.com/photos/cayobo/2037359479/ > > > > Is this a hoax? It definitely looks like a real article from the Key West > Citizen. > > > > Any thoughts or opinions about this? > > > > Steve > > CW8878 > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From steve at mayos.net Mon Dec 3 12:03:32 2007 From: steve at mayos.net (Steve Mayo) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 10:03:32 -0800 Subject: [wxqc] Is this for real? In-Reply-To: <7EED9774D38E415F8DD67AAE4EB95194@shrek> References: <000001c835c5$072258a0$156709e0$@net> <7EED9774D38E415F8DD67AAE4EB95194@shrek> Message-ID: <001a01c835d6$d21b0a00$76511e00$@net> Thanks. I thought it was a hoax, but could not find anything else on the subject. J From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 9:26 AM To: Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: Re: [wxqc] Is this for real? This should answer your question http://flickr.com/photos/cayobo/2053272793/ ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Mayo To: wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net Sent: 12/03/2007 8:56 AM Subject: [wxqc] Is this for real? Hi All, I realize this is a weather forum to discuss weather stations and the like, but I came across this yesterday and after Googling as many ways as I could, decided that I would ask for your opinion. http://flickr.com/photos/cayobo/2037359479/ Is this a hoax? It definitely looks like a real article from the Key West Citizen. Any thoughts or opinions about this? Steve CW8878 _____ _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071203/9a6b2c7e/attachment-0001.html From dmcintyre at att.net Mon Dec 3 13:09:36 2007 From: dmcintyre at att.net (Dexter McIntyre W4DEX) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:09:36 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] Is this for real? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c835c5$072258a0$156709e0$@net> Message-ID: <47545470.3020600@att.net> I'm fairly sure I heard this over 40 years ago when I was in school in Fla. But I just read this: "The coldest temperature ever recorded in Key West was 41 ?F (5 ?C) on January 12 , 1886 " from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_West,_Florida So it has been below 48 deg. Dexter, AS618 From webmaster at farmingtonweather.com Mon Dec 3 14:03:16 2007 From: webmaster at farmingtonweather.com (webmaster) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:03:16 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071203200320.74B25B4C50@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Dave, I was told that the rain gauges such as the 4" model commonly used was unreliable for measuring snow depth which would also mean precipitation. So even if it was a heated Davis or Peet bucket, wouldn't it still be unreliable? The explanation I got was that the bucket/gauge caused an updraft around it, blowing the snow up, so that it doesn't fall in to get melted or measured? I was told the only reliable way to measure snow, snow depth, or snow precipitation would be to use a snow board, make a "biscuit" and then melt the snow and manually add the precip to add to my total. Based on the design of a rain bucket, it seems that in addition to sharing the updraft problem, the slick tapered insides would make it more likely that snow could blow in and then back out, more so than the straight sides of a rain gauge. I can see it must have warmed outside as some snow was in my bucket which is melting, giving me aritificial readings for today. I should disconnected the rain bucket for the winter, or at least cover it. Seems like a coffee can over it would be a viable method. Thanks, Lew >Message: 3 >Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:37:07 -0500 >From: Dave Helms >Subject: Re: [wxqc] Winter Rain Stats >To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > >Message-ID: <47539603.3010607 at comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > >Hi Rich, > >Winter rain gauge freeze-up is a real program for many people. If you >don't have a heated rain gauge, then its probably best to simply cover >the gauge funnel during wintery precip with temperatures below 32F. The >problem is with the first day above freezing after the snowstorm your >rain gauge will measure "melt-out" rain which is erroneous. Some people >use a pipe-wrap heater to gently warm the gauge above 32F so any snow >that falls in the funnel will melt and be counted in the tipping bucket. >I have a Peet heated gauge (a couple capacitors warm the interior of my >"Pro" gauge). > >Even with a covered (non-reporting) rain gauge, you will still provide >substantual useful data. > >Dave >CW0351 ****************************************** Lew - Weathermaster lew at farmingtonweather.com Farmington Weather www.farmingtonweather.com Farmington, Minnesota, USA From mark at markwyman.com Mon Dec 3 13:01:48 2007 From: mark at markwyman.com (Mark Wyman) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:01:48 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] weatherlink 5.7.1 rain data on WU In-Reply-To: <711449.18703.qm@web36106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <711449.18703.qm@web36106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <026f01c835de$f4f33310$ff150b0a@vanteonrdc.vanteon.com> It does, but each weather station transmits it differently. I believe the Davis transmits current rates only, and 24-hour total resetting at midnight. Other stations transmit current accumulated rain and no rate, yet rate is derived by the difference in total from one time period to another. I am not sure which is what, but not all weather stations are created equal when it comes to rain. -Mark -----Original Message----- From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of Bill L Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:45 PM To: wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net Subject: [wxqc] weatherlink 5.7.1 rain data on WU Hi folks!! Not sure if this is the place but I have looked elsewhere without any luck I have a weather monitor II transmitting to WU and CWOP. CWOP works fine (as I would guess). It looks like it (weatherlink) does not transmit rain data to WU?? Is this possible?? ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. From Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov Mon Dec 3 13:31:06 2007 From: Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov (Evan Bookbinder) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:31:06 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Is this for real? In-Reply-To: References: <000001c835c5$072258a0$156709e0$@net> Message-ID: <4754597A.5020505@noaa.gov> If you have to even ask, then 99% of the time, go with your gut. Would this be physically possible? No. Anything mixed with rain water (e.g. ocean salt on the streets) would make it freeze at a LOWER temperature, not higher. Does this newspaper even exist? No - http://www.usnpl.com/flnews.php. The Key West Citizen which I'm quite familiar with is a full color newspaper headlined with "The Citizen" on the front page and very "modern", not that old school black/white newspaper font. I'm sure you can find it online. Has the temperature even come in the BALLPARK of 48 degrees in November in Key West? Never, not even close. In January or February, EXTREMELY rarely, but if you've gotten this far and believed any part of this made up article, then you'd probably believe anything. The empty google search was probably your first clue to stop searching. Anything this far fetched that was 'real' would have had a slew of press and research articles available on the subject. Evan Victor Engel wrote: > I was thinking about this over the weekend. I suspect it's a hoax > that's unprovable or difficult to prove for one reason. It very simply > rarely gets that cold there. When was the last time it got as cold as > 48 at Key West? > > Victor > > On 12/3/07, Steve Mayo wrote: > >> >> >> Hi All, >> >> >> >> I realize this is a weather forum to discuss weather stations and the like, >> but I came across this yesterday and after Googling as many ways as I could, >> decided that I would ask for your opinion. >> >> >> >> http://flickr.com/photos/cayobo/2037359479/ >> >> >> >> Is this a hoax? It definitely looks like a real article from the Key West >> Citizen. >> >> >> >> Any thoughts or opinions about this? >> >> >> >> Steve >> >> CW8878 >> _______________________________________________ >> wxqc mailing list >> Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net >> To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: >> http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >> >> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. >> >> > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From plantlover at ntelos.net Mon Dec 3 14:31:55 2007 From: plantlover at ntelos.net (Michele Fletcher) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 15:31:55 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] FW: First my computer, now my whole VP :( Message-ID: Edith, Since this was not from a member it didn't show up on discussion email but was bounced. However he CCed me and I'm sending it on so you can get it. Good luck Michele CW8902 -----Original Message----- From: Ira Pfeffer [mailto:irap at davisnet.com] Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 12:55 PM To: Michele Fletcher; Edith.Thornburg at verizon.net; Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: RE: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( Edith I suggest that you call this into support when you can be in front of your console display. Michele has a Vantage Pro and I think you have a different model? Or you can ship in the whole station to us and for the same amount $80 we will fix and or replace whatever needs to be done. Ship to the attached address ATTN:Repairs, include a letter with your name, address and phone number as well as what you want us to work on. Please allow 2-3 weeks for the repair and ship back to you. Thank you Ira Pfeffer Technical Support Davis Instruments 510-732-7814 irap at davisnet.com www.davisnet.com Don't forget to check the FAQ's at our website, http://www.davisnet.com/support/weather/faq/index.asp http://www.davisnet.com/support/weather/Video/index.asp ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- From: Michele Fletcher [mailto:plantlover at ntelos.net] Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 3:16 PM To: Edith.Thornburg at verizon.net; Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: RE: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( Edith, I sent my 4 and a half year old VPro back to Davis in September for repairs... They charged $80.00 and updated the software, made the transmitter board repair and replaced everything which was showing wear... (a number of parts).... and recalibrated everything. The other option was for them to send me parts for the board alone which would have been $60.00. See contact info below. Ira was very helpful. Good Luck Michele CW8902 Contact Ira Pfeffer: irap at davisnet.com Ira Pfeffer Technical Support Davis Instruments 510-732-7814 www.davisnet.com -----Original Message----- From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net]On Behalf Of Edith Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:46 PM To: Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( Well, my weather station computer fried 2 months ago. Go figure - in the same room, 3 computers - one plugged directly into the wall (DD's), one plugged into the surge supressor only portion of Tripplite UPS, and one plugged into the UPS of the Tripplite. Guess which one fried? So, last night my DH decided to be nice and fix where we had originally placed the rain gauge (too high - top of 25' flag pole). He invited the help of only our tractor, and of course,since the tractor doesn't have hands to catch the falling pole, it all came crashing down :( BOO HOO> So, now, no computer, and the rest of the Vantage Pro2 Plus is in the house. It actually looks OK for the most part. The bucket popped off (looks like the tabs are broken off), and the wind cups broke off. Also, the lid popped off the computer portion and solar panel - it was off all night long). The temperature readings and stuff still seem to be transmitting to the console. SO, finally my questions - should I send this to someone for a check-up? If yes, who? How much should I expect this to cost? Are there other things I should be looking at? Other questions I should be asking? THANKS SOOOO MUCH! Edith REALLY going through WITHDRAWL now!! _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071203/d48a83cc/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Davis return address.doc Type: application/msword Size: 22528 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071203/d48a83cc/attachment-0001.doc From kn4lf at earthlink.net Mon Dec 3 15:04:00 2007 From: kn4lf at earthlink.net (Thomas Giella KN4LF) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:04:00 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] Key West Minimum Temperature Message-ID: <000501c835f0$0711f660$6401a8c0@home1yyeya0t0mshome> I'm fairly sure I heard this over 40 years ago when I was in school in Fla. But I just read this: "The coldest temperature ever recorded in Key West was 41 ?F (5 ?C) on January 12 , 1886 " from Wikipedia: Yes the official lowest minimum temperature at Key West is 41 degrees and that reading has observed several times. These readings came from weather instruments exposed right at the shoreline and in the downtown area. An unofficial minimum temperature of 31.8 deg. occurred in January 1981 at an inland suburban location on the island of Key West. http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf41.htm . Take Care, Thomas F, Giella, KN4LF Retired Meteorologist Lakeland, FL, USA kn4lf at arrl.net CWOP #AR692/KN4LF CoCoRaHS #FL-PK-18 Lakeland, FL Daily Climatological Weather Data Archive: http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf22.htm From brillig at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 14:30:12 2007 From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:30:12 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 3 In-Reply-To: <20071203200320.74B25B4C50@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <20071203200320.74B25B4C50@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: On whether a rain gauge should be covered or not: It seems to me that whether to record snow/ice melt as precipitation depends upon the use that is made of the data. If you want to record precipitation events, then, obviously, the data is not valuable, unless, perhaps, if an asterisk can be attached to it indicating the time is wrong. On the other hand, if the purpose is to know the moisture available for agriculture, for example, it could be more valuable than not having it at all. I don't do anything to protect my rain gauge from the winter. A major reason, of course, is that we rarely have extended periods that stay below freezing here in central Texas. Worst case scenario for a typical year is that the precipitation data will be a couple of days late. In such a case, it's easy enough to glean this from other data. See http://tinyurl.com/ysfcm7 for an example of precipitation data that consisted of ice storm melt. We get snowfall so rarely that it's usually not worth measuring. On 12/3/07, webmaster wrote: > Dave, > > I was told that the rain gauges such as the 4" model commonly used > was unreliable for measuring snow depth which would also mean > precipitation. So even if it was a heated Davis or Peet bucket, > wouldn't it still be unreliable? The explanation I got was that the > bucket/gauge caused an updraft around it, blowing the snow up, so > that it doesn't fall in to get melted or measured? > > I was told the only reliable way to measure snow, snow depth, or snow > precipitation would be to use a snow board, make a "biscuit" and then > melt the snow and manually add the precip to add to my total. > > Based on the design of a rain bucket, it seems that in addition to > sharing the updraft problem, the slick tapered insides would make it > more likely that snow could blow in and then back out, more so than > the straight sides of a rain gauge. > > I can see it must have warmed outside as some snow was in my bucket > which is melting, giving me aritificial readings for today. I should > disconnected the rain bucket for the winter, or at least cover > it. Seems like a coffee can over it would be a viable method. > > Thanks, > > Lew > > > >Message: 3 > >Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:37:07 -0500 > >From: Dave Helms > >Subject: Re: [wxqc] Winter Rain Stats > >To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > > > >Message-ID: <47539603.3010607 at comcast.net> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > > >Hi Rich, > > > >Winter rain gauge freeze-up is a real program for many people. If you > >don't have a heated rain gauge, then its probably best to simply cover > >the gauge funnel during wintery precip with temperatures below 32F. The > >problem is with the first day above freezing after the snowstorm your > >rain gauge will measure "melt-out" rain which is erroneous. Some people > >use a pipe-wrap heater to gently warm the gauge above 32F so any snow > >that falls in the funnel will melt and be counted in the tipping bucket. > >I have a Peet heated gauge (a couple capacitors warm the interior of my > >"Pro" gauge). > > > >Even with a covered (non-reporting) rain gauge, you will still provide > >substantual useful data. > > > >Dave > >CW0351 > > ****************************************** > Lew - Weathermaster > lew at farmingtonweather.com > Farmington Weather > www.farmingtonweather.com > Farmington, Minnesota, USA > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From dshelms at comcast.net Mon Dec 3 19:43:16 2007 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:43:16 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] On Snow Measurement... In-Reply-To: <20071203200320.74B25B4C50@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <20071203200320.74B25B4C50@relay01.roch.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <4754B0B4.4060202@comcast.net> Hi Lew, CoCoRaHS based its snow and rain measurement on using the 4" manual gauge, and did a nice analysis to support their use of this diameter gauge: http://www.cocorahs.org/media/docs/AMS_NJD_GaugeComparison_AppldClimate_2-2.pdf ... measurements from the 4 inch manual gauge are deemed to be "climate quality" by professional climatologists. Melting snow caught in the funnel-less 4 inch manual gauge is more accurate that doing a core sample, which leaves much of the snow on the ground. The snow board is necessary for accurately measuring new snowfall and to determine snow-water equivelent. We have worked with Nolan Doeskan, Colorado State Climatologost and CoCoRaHS PI, to develop climate approved snow measurement instructions and posted them to this link: http://www.madis-fsl.org/snow_measurements.html ... we also even worked with Nolan to gain approval to have the Snow Training DVD placed on the Internet for folks to stream (also on the snow training page). I have been operating my Peet Bros Pro heated rain gauge for 5 years, while also documenting the catchment from the co-located 4 inch manual gauge (my station pictures are on my QC page): http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C0351 In most cases, the melted liquid amount from the Peet Pro was very close to the 4 inch manual gauge. The difference between the manual and Peet gauges was similar in both rain and snow events. My conclusion is the small amount of warm air that rises through the funnel opening, and resulting turbulence, has no significant effect on catchment efficiency of the Peet Bros heated rain gauge. My recommendations are: 1. If you have a heated rain gauge, keep the liquid equivelent/rain reports flowing. Validate the automated liquid amount using a 4 inch gauge and correct the liquid total as needed. 2. If you don't have a heated rain gauge, and the forecast is for solid precip (snow, ice pellets, etc), cover the gauge. Keep your station climate statistics up to date by using a 4" manual gauge and report the manually collected precip amounts through CWOP Snow reporting or COCORAHS, whichever you are registered with. Automated liquid amount reports from heated rain gauges are very useful for estimating accumulation rates during the storm. That there are relatively few heated rain gauges make these observations even more valuable. Hope this helps, Dave CW0351 webmaster wrote: >Dave, > >I was told that the rain gauges such as the 4" model commonly used >was unreliable for measuring snow depth which would also mean >precipitation. So even if it was a heated Davis or Peet bucket, >wouldn't it still be unreliable? The explanation I got was that the >bucket/gauge caused an updraft around it, blowing the snow up, so >that it doesn't fall in to get melted or measured? > >I was told the only reliable way to measure snow, snow depth, or snow >precipitation would be to use a snow board, make a "biscuit" and then >melt the snow and manually add the precip to add to my total. > >Based on the design of a rain bucket, it seems that in addition to >sharing the updraft problem, the slick tapered insides would make it >more likely that snow could blow in and then back out, more so than >the straight sides of a rain gauge. > >I can see it must have warmed outside as some snow was in my bucket >which is melting, giving me aritificial readings for today. I should >disconnected the rain bucket for the winter, or at least cover >it. Seems like a coffee can over it would be a viable method. > >Thanks, > >Lew > > > > >>Message: 3 >>Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:37:07 -0500 >>From: Dave Helms >>Subject: Re: [wxqc] Winter Rain Stats >>To: Discussion of weather data quality issues >> >>Message-ID: <47539603.3010607 at comcast.net> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed >> >>Hi Rich, >> >>Winter rain gauge freeze-up is a real program for many people. If you >>don't have a heated rain gauge, then its probably best to simply cover >>the gauge funnel during wintery precip with temperatures below 32F. The >>problem is with the first day above freezing after the snowstorm your >>rain gauge will measure "melt-out" rain which is erroneous. Some people >>use a pipe-wrap heater to gently warm the gauge above 32F so any snow >>that falls in the funnel will melt and be counted in the tipping bucket. >>I have a Peet heated gauge (a couple capacitors warm the interior of my >>"Pro" gauge). >> >>Even with a covered (non-reporting) rain gauge, you will still provide >>substantual useful data. >> >>Dave >>CW0351 >> >> > >****************************************** >Lew - Weathermaster >lew at farmingtonweather.com >Farmington Weather >www.farmingtonweather.com >Farmington, Minnesota, USA > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net >To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: >http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > From huggal at earthlink.net Mon Dec 3 21:51:26 2007 From: huggal at earthlink.net (huggal) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 21:51:26 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Out of service notice CW3525,Ottawa,Kansas Message-ID: <000701c83628$f337eee0$e0a75804@homeba7bf01ed1> Station CW3525 will be out of service beginning 04Dec2007 at 07:30 until further notice. This outage is expected to last no more that 3 days. From edith.thornburg at verizon.net Tue Dec 4 20:45:36 2007 From: edith.thornburg at verizon.net (Edith) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:45:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( Message-ID: <8569997.15118521196822736117.JavaMail.root@vms227.mailsrvcs.net> THANKS so much! Now, all I need is to find a good box to ship it in and a new computer. I think the box may have to wait until Christmas :( Over 2 months without access :( All I need to do is sell our pool table, then I should be able to afford a laptop :) Edith ===================== From: Ira Pfeffer Date: 2007/12/03 Mon AM 11:54:33 CST To: Michele Fletcher , Edith.Thornburg at verizon.net, Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: RE: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( EdithI suggest that you call this into support when you can be in front of your console display.Michele has a Vantage Pro and I think you have a different model?Or you can ship in the whole station to us and for the same amount $80 we will fix and or replace whatever needs to be done.Ship to the attached address ATTN:Repairs, include a letter with your name, address and phone number as well as what you want us to work on.Please allow 2-3 weeks for the repair and ship back to you. Thank you Ira Pfeffer Technical Support Davis Instruments 510-732-7814 irap at davisnet.com www.davisnet.com Don't forget to check the FAQ's at our website, http://www.davisnet.com/support/weather/faq/index.asp http://www.davisnet.com/support/weather/Video/index.asp From: Michele Fletcher [mailto:plantlover at ntelos.net] Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 3:16 PM To: Edith.Thornburg at verizon.net; Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: RE: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( Edith, I sent my 4 and a half year old VPro back to Davis in September for repairs... They charged $80.00 and updated the software, made the transmitter board repair and replaced everything which was showing wear... (a number of parts).... and recalibrated everything. The other option was for them to send me parts for the board alone which would have been $60.00. See contact info below. Ira was very helpful. Good Luck Michele CW8902 Contact Ira Pfeffer: irap at davisnet.com Ira Pfeffer Technical Support Davis Instruments 510-732-7814 www.davisnet.com -----Original Message----- From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net]On Behalf Of Edith Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:46 PM To: Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( Well, my weather station computer fried 2 months ago. Go figure - in the same room, 3 computers - one plugged directly into the wall (DD's), one plugged into the surge supressor only portion of Tripplite UPS, and one plugged into the UPS of the Tripplite. Guess which one fried? So, last night my DH decided to be nice and fix where we had originally placed the rain gauge (too high - top of 25' flag pole). He invited the help of only our tractor, and of course,since the tractor doesn't have hands to catch the falling pole, it all came crashing down :( BOO HOO> So, now, no computer, and the rest of the Vantage Pro2 Plus is in the house. It actually looks OK for the most part. The bucket popped off (looks like the tabs are broken off), and the wind cups broke off. Also, the lid popped off the computer portion and solar panel - it was off all night long). The temperature readings and stuff still seem to be transmitting to the console. SO, finally my questions - should I send this to someone for a check-up? If yes, who? How much should I expect this to cost? Are there other things I should be looking at? Other questions I should be asking? THANKS SOOOO MUCH! Edith REALLY going through WITHDRAWL now!! _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. From mark at markwyman.com Tue Dec 4 21:20:01 2007 From: mark at markwyman.com (Mark Wyman) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:20:01 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] New version of WeatherDials Message-ID: <031501c836ed$b92be5b0$02fea8c0@MWYMANS> Hi All, I converted the program to multi-threaded for performance increases, and fixed a few minor bugs. Also added distance and bearing to the Weather Underground search results. Please check it out and let me know what you think! Just a pretty way to look at your (and other?s) station data. HYPERLINK "http://www.markwyman.com/projects/WeatherDialBrowser.asp"http://www.markwym an.com/projects/WeatherDialBrowser.asp -Mark Wyman No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1170 - Release Date: 12/4/2007 10:52 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071204/569bfcf2/attachment-0001.html From webmaster at farmingtonweather.com Tue Dec 4 23:13:29 2007 From: webmaster at farmingtonweather.com (webmaster) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:13:29 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071205051333.9D4EAA140D@relay04.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Hello Victor, >It seems to me that whether to record snow/ice melt as precipitation >depends upon the use that is made of the data. If you want to record >precipitation events, then, obviously, the data is not valuable, >unless, perhaps, if an asterisk can be attached to it indicating the >time is wrong. I don't think I followed you there. I want to record snowfall and precipitation. What do you mean about the time being wrong? I only intend to measure the snow fall once a day and the end of the day so the amount I am reporting is for the day. I am not reporting it to anyone officially, only for myself. I don't think my precipitation data is used by anyone as I don't think any of the services use the precip data? >On the other hand, if the purpose is to know the moisture available >for agriculture, for example, it could be more valuable than not >having it at all. I do want to know the total precip, whether it is snow, ice, hail, sleet, or rain. >I don't do anything to protect my rain gauge from the winter. A major >reason, of course, is that we rarely have extended periods that stay >below freezing here in central Texas. Worst case scenario for a >typical year is that the precipitation data will be a couple of days >late. In such a case, it's easy enough to glean this from other data. >See http://tinyurl.com/ysfcm7 for an example of precipitation data >that consisted of ice storm melt. We get snowfall so rarely that it's >usually not worth measuring. I don't have a heater for my rain guage and haven't covered or disconnected it. Between yesterday and today we got 9.8" of snow. Yesterday my Davis reported .06" of rain and none today, meaning it warmed enough to melt some yesterday and didn't warm enough to melt any today. My dad who lives in El Paso said they had a 24" snowfall, or something around that amount. I don't remember more than 8" any time I lived there. He didn't know about taking the funnel out of his rain guage in the winter which I suggested to him the other day but I don't think he did as he is getting forgetful at 90yo. Thanks, Lew ****************************************** Lew - Weathermaster lew at farmingtonweather.com Farmington Weather www.farmingtonweather.com Farmington, Minnesota, USA From webmaster at farmingtonweather.com Tue Dec 4 23:37:08 2007 From: webmaster at farmingtonweather.com (webmaster) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:37:08 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20071205053711.DD049A1390@relay04.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Hello Dave, >CoCoRaHS based its snow and rain measurement on using the 4" manual >gauge, and did a nice analysis to support their use of this diameter gauge: >http://www.cocorahs.org/media/docs/AMS_NJD_GaugeComparison_AppldClimate_2-2.pdf >... measurements from the 4 inch manual gauge are deemed to be "climate >quality" by professional climatologists. The CoCoRaHS site suggests (like I have read elsewhere) that catching snow in the 4" guage is not a reliable method of determining snow depth, and if not accurate for snow depth, it wouldn't be reliable for moisture collection either. >Melting snow caught in the funnel-less 4 inch manual gauge is more >accurate that doing a core sample, which leaves much of the snow on the >ground. The snow board is necessary for accurately measuring new >snowfall and to determine snow-water equivelent. We have worked with >Nolan Doeskan, Colorado State Climatologost and CoCoRaHS PI, to develop >climate approved snow measurement instructions and posted them to this link: >http://www.madis-fsl.org/snow_measurements.html >... we also even worked with Nolan to gain approval to have the Snow >Training DVD placed on the Internet for folks to stream (also on the >snow training page). I hadn't read that information before, but had read the CoCoRaHS information about determining snow fall depth and snow fall precipitation. They seem to prefer using a snowboard for both purposes. Measuring the snow depth on the snow board and then cutting a biscuit on the snowboard for melting and measuring precipitation. When re-reading the CoCoRaHS I found where the indicated the rain guage was not a reliable method for measuring snowfall due to how the snow wraps around the guage vs. going in. I read elsewhere about how the rain guage causes an updraft keeping snow out. The past two days I measured snow fall both days. Both days there was about 5" of snow on my snowboard, both days there was about 2" in the rain guage. A dramatic difference. >I have been operating my Peet Bros Pro heated rain gauge for 5 years, >while also documenting the catchment from the co-located 4 inch manual >gauge (my station pictures are on my QC page): >http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C0351 > >In most cases, the melted liquid amount from the Peet Pro was very close >to the 4 inch manual gauge. The difference between the manual and Peet >gauges was similar in both rain and snow events. My conclusion is the >small amount of warm air that rises through the funnel opening, and >resulting turbulence, has no significant effect on catchment efficiency >of the Peet Bros heated rain gauge. I am trying to understand why the actual snow fall was 10" in two days but the guage only captured 4" in the same two days? >My recommendations are: >1. If you have a heated rain gauge, keep the liquid equivelent/rain >reports flowing. Validate the automated liquid amount using a 4 inch >gauge and correct the liquid total as needed. I don't have a heated rain bucket and didn't get one after reading about the inaccuracy of the rain guage for capturing snow. The CoCoRaHS link as well as your link indicates the inaccuracy of using the 4" guage for determining snowfall due to it's inability to capture all the snow? >2. If you don't have a heated rain gauge, and the forecast is for solid >precip (snow, ice pellets, etc), cover the gauge. Keep your station >climate statistics up to date by using a 4" manual gauge and report the >manually collected precip amounts through CWOP Snow reporting or >COCORAHS, whichever you are registered with. I didn't know CWOP did snow reporting? My state is not in the COCORAHS program. My state has it's own program but their chart indicates they don't need more measurements in my area. I did get an email from the local SWCD contact but she takes a long time to respond to mail and doesn't seem to have a grasp on what she is doing. >Automated liquid amount reports from heated rain gauges are very useful >for estimating accumulation rates during the storm. That there are >relatively few heated rain gauges make these observations even more >valuable. From my observation the snow seems to blow in and then out of the Davis bucket. I don't know if the heater would make the plastic so hot the snow would melt on contact and now blow back out? After 10" of snow fall in two days my Davis bucket hasn't filled up yet even though it is far shallower than 10". Since it isn't heated that information might not be meaningfull however. It does seem that if the cylindrical rain guages don't accurately capture all of the snow, especially with strong wind, it seems it is best to use the biscuit/snowboard method for measuring precipitation. I mentioned about the dramatic difference in what my 4" CoCoRaHS rain guage caught vs. what actually fell on the ground using the snowboard method. I don't know of a reason my discrepancy would be so great if in fact using the rain guage for snow depth is a viable method? Thanks, Lew ****************************************** Lew - Weathermaster lew at farmingtonweather.com Farmington Weather www.farmingtonweather.com Farmington, Minnesota, USA From brillig at gmail.com Tue Dec 4 23:44:41 2007 From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel) Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 23:44:41 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <20071205051333.9D4EAA140D@relay04.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <20071205051333.9D4EAA140D@relay04.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: On Dec 4, 2007 11:13 PM, webmaster wrote: > Hello Victor, > > >It seems to me that whether to record snow/ice melt as precipitation > >depends upon the use that is made of the data. If you want to record > >precipitation events, then, obviously, the data is not valuable, > >unless, perhaps, if an asterisk can be attached to it indicating the > >time is wrong. > > I don't think I followed you there. I want to record snowfall and > precipitation. What do you mean about the time being wrong? I only > intend to measure the snow fall once a day and the end of the day so > the amount I am reporting is for the day. I am not reporting it to > anyone officially, only for myself. I don't think my precipitation > data is used by anyone as I don't think any of the services use the > precip data? By time being wrong I mean this. If you don't alter the rain collection system and let the snow accumulate or the freezing rain accumulate, then it isn't measured until such time as it melts. In the case of Central Texas, that is likely to be a day or a couple of days later. The amount is correct, but the time of precipitation is late because it's not recorded until the melt occurs. > >On the other hand, if the purpose is to know the moisture available > >for agriculture, for example, it could be more valuable than not > >having it at all. > > I do want to know the total precip, whether it is snow, ice, hail, > sleet, or rain. So do I. And I care more about it than whether it occurred during an ice storm or a rain storm. > I don't have a heater for my rain guage and haven't covered or > disconnected it. Between yesterday and today we got 9.8" of > snow. Yesterday my Davis reported .06" of rain and none today, > meaning it warmed enough to melt some yesterday and didn't warm > enough to melt any today. Here in Central Texas, it's rare enough to get any snow, far less an accumulation. I think if an accumulation were an expected thing I'd have a different opinion about this issue. > My dad who lives in El Paso said they had a 24" snowfall, or > something around that amount. I don't remember more than 8" any time > I lived there. He didn't know about taking the funnel out of his > rain guage in the winter which I suggested to him the other day but I > don't think he did as he is getting forgetful at 90yo. 24 inches? Wow. I had no idea. I think the most I've ever seen accumulated in Texas is about 4-5 inches. That's after 17 years in Texas (mostly Dallas and Austin). Victor From kdmiller at oldsgmail.com Wed Dec 5 00:09:36 2007 From: kdmiller at oldsgmail.com (Keith Miller) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:09:36 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0914FA88945F4B7BAAE7997218D8DEFE@sauron> > -----Original Message----- > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net]On Behalf Of > Victor Engel > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:45 AM > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > Subject: Re: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 6 > > > 24 inches? Wow. I had no idea. I think the most I've ever seen > accumulated in Texas is about 4-5 inches. That's after 17 years in > Texas (mostly Dallas and Austin). > You don't know what snow is. :) Most dramatic pic I have from winter '03: http://kdmiller.oldsgmail.com/misc/DCP_0348.JPG But I've long heard stories of Oswego in the winter of '65-66. Keith -- CW5250 => http://weather.stadhaugh.com From SkyArcher at aol.com Wed Dec 5 03:42:35 2007 From: SkyArcher at aol.com (SkyArcher at aol.com) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 04:42:35 EST Subject: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 6 Message-ID: cw4224 (Lutz, FL) will be out of service for about another week until I can visit the site. For some reason, the data is flowing to Wunderground but not to APRS. Al Mitleider CW4224 Lutz, FL In a message dated 12/4/2007 10:16:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wxqc-request at lists.gladstonefamily.net writes: Send wxqc mailing list submissions to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wxqc-request at lists.gladstonefamily.net You can reach the person managing the list at wxqc-owner at lists.gladstonefamily.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of wxqc digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Key West Minimum Temperature (Thomas Giella KN4LF) 2. Re: wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 3 (Victor Engel) 3. Re: On Snow Measurement... (Dave Helms) 4. Out of service notice CW3525,Ottawa,Kansas (huggal) 5. Re: First my computer, now my whole VP :( (Edith) 6. New version of WeatherDials (Mark Wyman) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 16:04:00 -0500 From: "Thomas Giella KN4LF" Subject: [wxqc] Key West Minimum Temperature To: "a WXQC e-List" Message-ID: <000501c835f0$0711f660$6401a8c0 at home1yyeya0t0mshome> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I'm fairly sure I heard this over 40 years ago when I was in school in Fla. But I just read this: "The coldest temperature ever recorded in Key West was 41 ?F (5 ?C) on January 12 , 1886 " from Wikipedia: Yes the official lowest minimum temperature at Key West is 41 degrees and that reading has observed several times. These readings came from weather instruments exposed right at the shoreline and in the downtown area. An unofficial minimum temperature of 31.8 deg. occurred in January 1981 at an inland suburban location on the island of Key West. http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf41.htm . Take Care, Thomas F, Giella, KN4LF Retired Meteorologist Lakeland, FL, USA kn4lf at arrl.net CWOP #AR692/KN4LF CoCoRaHS #FL-PK-18 Lakeland, FL Daily Climatological Weather Data Archive: http://www.kn4lf.com/kn4lf22.htm ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 14:30:12 -0600 From: "Victor Engel" Subject: Re: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 3 To: "Discussion of weather data quality issues" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On whether a rain gauge should be covered or not: It seems to me that whether to record snow/ice melt as precipitation depends upon the use that is made of the data. If you want to record precipitation events, then, obviously, the data is not valuable, unless, perhaps, if an asterisk can be attached to it indicating the time is wrong. On the other hand, if the purpose is to know the moisture available for agriculture, for example, it could be more valuable than not having it at all. I don't do anything to protect my rain gauge from the winter. A major reason, of course, is that we rarely have extended periods that stay below freezing here in central Texas. Worst case scenario for a typical year is that the precipitation data will be a couple of days late. In such a case, it's easy enough to glean this from other data. See http://tinyurl.com/ysfcm7 for an example of precipitation data that consisted of ice storm melt. We get snowfall so rarely that it's usually not worth measuring. On 12/3/07, webmaster wrote: > Dave, > > I was told that the rain gauges such as the 4" model commonly used > was unreliable for measuring snow depth which would also mean > precipitation. So even if it was a heated Davis or Peet bucket, > wouldn't it still be unreliable? The explanation I got was that the > bucket/gauge caused an updraft around it, blowing the snow up, so > that it doesn't fall in to get melted or measured? > > I was told the only reliable way to measure snow, snow depth, or snow > precipitation would be to use a snow board, make a "biscuit" and then > melt the snow and manually add the precip to add to my total. > > Based on the design of a rain bucket, it seems that in addition to > sharing the updraft problem, the slick tapered insides would make it > more likely that snow could blow in and then back out, more so than > the straight sides of a rain gauge. > > I can see it must have warmed outside as some snow was in my bucket > which is melting, giving me aritificial readings for today. I should > disconnected the rain bucket for the winter, or at least cover > it. Seems like a coffee can over it would be a viable method. > > Thanks, > > Lew > > > >Message: 3 > >Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:37:07 -0500 > >From: Dave Helms > >Subject: Re: [wxqc] Winter Rain Stats > >To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > > > >Message-ID: <47539603.3010607 at comcast.net> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > > >Hi Rich, > > > >Winter rain gauge freeze-up is a real program for many people. If you > >don't have a heated rain gauge, then its probably best to simply cover > >the gauge funnel during wintery precip with temperatures below 32F. The > >problem is with the first day above freezing after the snowstorm your > >rain gauge will measure "melt-out" rain which is erroneous. Some people > >use a pipe-wrap heater to gently warm the gauge above 32F so any snow > >that falls in the funnel will melt and be counted in the tipping bucket. > >I have a Peet heated gauge (a couple capacitors warm the interior of my > >"Pro" gauge). > > > >Even with a covered (non-reporting) rain gauge, you will still provide > >substantual useful data. > > > >Dave > >CW0351 > > ****************************************** > Lew - Weathermaster > lew at farmingtonweather.com > Farmington Weather > www.farmingtonweather.com > Farmington, Minnesota, USA > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:43:16 -0500 From: Dave Helms Subject: Re: [wxqc] On Snow Measurement... To: Discussion of weather data quality issues Message-ID: <4754B0B4.4060202 at comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Lew, CoCoRaHS based its snow and rain measurement on using the 4" manual gauge, and did a nice analysis to support their use of this diameter gauge: http://www.cocorahs.org/media/docs/AMS_NJD_GaugeComparison_AppldClimate_2-2.pd f ... measurements from the 4 inch manual gauge are deemed to be "climate quality" by professional climatologists. Melting snow caught in the funnel-less 4 inch manual gauge is more accurate that doing a core sample, which leaves much of the snow on the ground. The snow board is necessary for accurately measuring new snowfall and to determine snow-water equivelent. We have worked with Nolan Doeskan, Colorado State Climatologost and CoCoRaHS PI, to develop climate approved snow measurement instructions and posted them to this link: http://www.madis-fsl.org/snow_measurements.html ... we also even worked with Nolan to gain approval to have the Snow Training DVD placed on the Internet for folks to stream (also on the snow training page). I have been operating my Peet Bros Pro heated rain gauge for 5 years, while also documenting the catchment from the co-located 4 inch manual gauge (my station pictures are on my QC page): http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C0351 In most cases, the melted liquid amount from the Peet Pro was very close to the 4 inch manual gauge. The difference between the manual and Peet gauges was similar in both rain and snow events. My conclusion is the small amount of warm air that rises through the funnel opening, and resulting turbulence, has no significant effect on catchment efficiency of the Peet Bros heated rain gauge. My recommendations are: 1. If you have a heated rain gauge, keep the liquid equivelent/rain reports flowing. Validate the automated liquid amount using a 4 inch gauge and correct the liquid total as needed. 2. If you don't have a heated rain gauge, and the forecast is for solid precip (snow, ice pellets, etc), cover the gauge. Keep your station climate statistics up to date by using a 4" manual gauge and report the manually collected precip amounts through CWOP Snow reporting or COCORAHS, whichever you are registered with. Automated liquid amount reports from heated rain gauges are very useful for estimating accumulation rates during the storm. That there are relatively few heated rain gauges make these observations even more valuable. Hope this helps, Dave CW0351 webmaster wrote: >Dave, > >I was told that the rain gauges such as the 4" model commonly used >was unreliable for measuring snow depth which would also mean >precipitation. So even if it was a heated Davis or Peet bucket, >wouldn't it still be unreliable? The explanation I got was that the >bucket/gauge caused an updraft around it, blowing the snow up, so >that it doesn't fall in to get melted or measured? > >I was told the only reliable way to measure snow, snow depth, or snow >precipitation would be to use a snow board, make a "biscuit" and then >melt the snow and manually add the precip to add to my total. > >Based on the design of a rain bucket, it seems that in addition to >sharing the updraft problem, the slick tapered insides would make it >more likely that snow could blow in and then back out, more so than >the straight sides of a rain gauge. > >I can see it must have warmed outside as some snow was in my bucket >which is melting, giving me aritificial readings for today. I should >disconnected the rain bucket for the winter, or at least cover >it. Seems like a coffee can over it would be a viable method. > >Thanks, > >Lew > > > > >>Message: 3 >>Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:37:07 -0500 >>From: Dave Helms >>Subject: Re: [wxqc] Winter Rain Stats >>To: Discussion of weather data quality issues >> >>Message-ID: <47539603.3010607 at comcast.net> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed >> >>Hi Rich, >> >>Winter rain gauge freeze-up is a real program for many people. If you >>don't have a heated rain gauge, then its probably best to simply cover >>the gauge funnel during wintery precip with temperatures below 32F. The >>problem is with the first day above freezing after the snowstorm your >>rain gauge will measure "melt-out" rain which is erroneous. Some people >>use a pipe-wrap heater to gently warm the gauge above 32F so any snow >>that falls in the funnel will melt and be counted in the tipping bucket. >>I have a Peet heated gauge (a couple capacitors warm the interior of my >>"Pro" gauge). >> >>Even with a covered (non-reporting) rain gauge, you will still provide >>substantual useful data. >> >>Dave >>CW0351 >> >> > >****************************************** >Lew - Weathermaster >lew at farmingtonweather.com >Farmington Weather >www.farmingtonweather.com >Farmington, Minnesota, USA > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net >To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: >http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 21:51:26 -0600 From: "huggal" Subject: [wxqc] Out of service notice CW3525,Ottawa,Kansas To: Message-ID: <000701c83628$f337eee0$e0a75804 at homeba7bf01ed1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Station CW3525 will be out of service beginning 04Dec2007 at 07:30 until further notice. This outage is expected to last no more that 3 days. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 20:45:36 -0600 (CST) From: Edith Subject: Re: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( To: Ira Pfeffer , Michele Fletcher , Discussion of weather data quality issues Message-ID: <8569997.15118521196822736117.JavaMail.root at vms227.mailsrvcs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 THANKS so much! Now, all I need is to find a good box to ship it in and a new computer. I think the box may have to wait until Christmas :( Over 2 months without access :( All I need to do is sell our pool table, then I should be able to afford a laptop :) Edith ===================== From: Ira Pfeffer Date: 2007/12/03 Mon AM 11:54:33 CST To: Michele Fletcher , Edith.Thornburg at verizon.net, Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: RE: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( EdithI suggest that you call this into support when you can be in front of your console display.Michele has a Vantage Pro and I think you have a different model?Or you can ship in the whole station to us and for the same amount $80 we will fix and or replace whatever needs to be done.Ship to the attached address ATTN:Repairs, include a letter with your name, address and phone number as well as what you want us to work on.Please allow 2-3 weeks for the repair and ship back to you. Thank you Ira Pfeffer Technical Support Davis Instruments 510-732-7814 irap at davisnet.com www.davisnet.com Don't forget to check the FAQ's at our website, http://www.davisnet.com/support/weather/faq/index.asp http://www.davisnet.com/support/weather/Video/index.asp From: Michele Fletcher [mailto:plantlover at ntelos.net] Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 3:16 PM To: Edith.Thornburg at verizon.net; Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: RE: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( Edith, I sent my 4 and a half year old VPro back to Davis in September for repairs... They charged $80.00 and updated the software, made the transmitter board repair and replaced everything which was showing wear... (a number of parts).... and recalibrated everything. The other option was for them to send me parts for the board alone which would have been $60.00. See contact info below. Ira was very helpful. Good Luck Michele CW8902 Contact Ira Pfeffer: irap at davisnet.com Ira Pfeffer Technical Support Davis Instruments 510-732-7814 www.davisnet.com -----Original Message----- From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net]On Behalf Of Edith Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 5:46 PM To: Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: [wxqc] First my computer, now my whole VP :( Well, my weather station computer fried 2 months ago. Go figure - in the same room, 3 computers - one plugged directly into the wall (DD's), one plugged into the surge supressor only portion of Tripplite UPS, and one plugged into the UPS of the Tripplite. Guess which one fried? So, last night my DH decided to be nice and fix where we had originally placed the rain gauge (too high - top of 25' flag pole). He invited the help of only our tractor, and of course,since the tractor doesn't have hands to catch the falling pole, it all came crashing down :( BOO HOO> So, now, no computer, and the rest of the Vantage Pro2 Plus is in the house. It actually looks OK for the most part. The bucket popped off (looks like the tabs are broken off), and the wind cups broke off. Also, the lid popped off the computer portion and solar panel - it was off all night long). The temperature readings and stuff still seem to be transmitting to the console. SO, finally my questions - should I send this to someone for a check-up? If yes, who? How much should I expect this to cost? Are there other things I should be looking at? Other questions I should be asking? THANKS SOOOO MUCH! Edith REALLY going through WITHDRAWL now!! _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:20:01 -0500 From: "Mark Wyman" Subject: [wxqc] New version of WeatherDials To: "'Discussion of weather data quality issues'" Message-ID: <031501c836ed$b92be5b0$02fea8c0 at MWYMANS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Hi All, I converted the program to multi-threaded for performance increases, and fixed a few minor bugs. Also added distance and bearing to the Weather Underground search results. Please check it out and let me know what you think! Just a pretty way to look at your (and other?s) station data. HYPERLINK "http://www.markwyman.com/projects/WeatherDialBrowser.asp"http://www.markwym an.com/projects/WeatherDialBrowser.asp -Mark Wyman No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.13/1170 - Release Date: 12/4/2007 10:52 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071204/569bfcf2/attachment.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list Send messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubscribe or change options, please go to: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of these messages are the responsibility of the author(s). End of wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 6 *********************************** **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://server.gladstonefamily.net/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20071205/118002e7/attachment-0001.html From dshelms at comcast.net Wed Dec 5 06:12:26 2007 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 07:12:26 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <20071205053711.DD049A1390@relay04.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> References: <20071205053711.DD049A1390@relay04.roc.ny.frontiernet.net> Message-ID: <475695AA.4000205@comcast.net> Lew, 1. Snowfall: Snow boards are for snowfall observations. (measured using <> of an inch (e.g. convert factional inches to decimal)) 2. Snowdepth: Representative surface locations (flat, protected, and no obstructions, not drifted areas) are for depth snow depth observations. (measured to the nearest inch) 3. Rain gauges (un-funneled) are for liquid water amount observations of solid precipitation. (measured using << hundredth >> of an inch), Caveat: If you suspect the catchment in the maual gauge is unrepresentative due to strong winds and drifting, core samples are recommended as an <>. This is exactly what the climatologists recommend in the literature and in this NOAA/NWS sponsored training video: http://www.madis-fsl.org/snow_video.html Nolan Doeskan is the god of snow measurement and his instructions are not in debate. Obey Nolan. Dave CW0351 FYI... Snow depth varies (compresses) over time. A snowdepth measured immediately after snow falls will be at greatest depth, but begins to compress rather quickly after it falls. webmaster wrote: >Hello Dave, > > > >>CoCoRaHS based its snow and rain measurement on using the 4" manual >>gauge, and did a nice analysis to support their use of this diameter gauge: >>http://www.cocorahs.org/media/docs/AMS_NJD_GaugeComparison_AppldClimate_2-2.pdf >>... measurements from the 4 inch manual gauge are deemed to be "climate >>quality" by professional climatologists. >> >> > >The CoCoRaHS site suggests (like I have read elsewhere) that catching >snow in the 4" guage is not a reliable method of determining snow >depth, and if not accurate for snow depth, it wouldn't be reliable >for moisture collection either. > > > >>Melting snow caught in the funnel-less 4 inch manual gauge is more >>accurate that doing a core sample, which leaves much of the snow on the >>ground. The snow board is necessary for accurately measuring new >>snowfall and to determine snow-water equivelent. We have worked with >>Nolan Doeskan, Colorado State Climatologost and CoCoRaHS PI, to develop >>climate approved snow measurement instructions and posted them to this link: >>http://www.madis-fsl.org/snow_measurements.html >>... we also even worked with Nolan to gain approval to have the Snow >>Training DVD placed on the Internet for folks to stream (also on the >>snow training page). >> >> > >I hadn't read that information before, but had read the CoCoRaHS >information about determining snow fall depth and snow fall >precipitation. They seem to prefer using a snowboard for both >purposes. Measuring the snow depth on the snow board and then >cutting a biscuit on the snowboard for melting and measuring >precipitation. When re-reading the CoCoRaHS I found where the >indicated the rain guage was not a reliable method for measuring >snowfall due to how the snow wraps around the guage vs. going in. I >read elsewhere about how the rain guage causes an updraft keeping snow out. > >The past two days I measured snow fall both days. Both days there >was about 5" of snow on my snowboard, both days there was about 2" in >the rain guage. A dramatic difference. > > > >>I have been operating my Peet Bros Pro heated rain gauge for 5 years, >>while also documenting the catchment from the co-located 4 inch manual >>gauge (my station pictures are on my QC page): >>http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C0351 >> >>In most cases, the melted liquid amount from the Peet Pro was very close >>to the 4 inch manual gauge. The difference between the manual and Peet >>gauges was similar in both rain and snow events. My conclusion is the >>small amount of warm air that rises through the funnel opening, and >>resulting turbulence, has no significant effect on catchment efficiency >>of the Peet Bros heated rain gauge. >> >> > >I am trying to understand why the actual snow fall was 10" in two >days but the guage only captured 4" in the same two days? > > > > >>My recommendations are: >>1. If you have a heated rain gauge, keep the liquid equivelent/rain >>reports flowing. Validate the automated liquid amount using a 4 inch >>gauge and correct the liquid total as needed. >> >> > >I don't have a heated rain bucket and didn't get one after reading >about the inaccuracy of the rain guage for capturing snow. The >CoCoRaHS link as well as your link indicates the inaccuracy of using >the 4" guage for determining snowfall due to it's inability to >capture all the snow? > > > >>2. If you don't have a heated rain gauge, and the forecast is for solid >>precip (snow, ice pellets, etc), cover the gauge. Keep your station >>climate statistics up to date by using a 4" manual gauge and report the >>manually collected precip amounts through CWOP Snow reporting or >>COCORAHS, whichever you are registered with. >> >> > >I didn't know CWOP did snow reporting? My state is not in the >COCORAHS program. My state has it's own program but their chart >indicates they don't need more measurements in my area. I did get an >email from the local SWCD contact but she takes a long time to >respond to mail and doesn't seem to have a grasp on what she is doing. > > > > >>Automated liquid amount reports from heated rain gauges are very useful >>for estimating accumulation rates during the storm. That there are >>relatively few heated rain gauges make these observations even more >>valuable. >> >> > > From my observation the snow seems to blow in and then out of the >Davis bucket. I don't know if the heater would make the plastic so >hot the snow would melt on contact and now blow back out? After 10" >of snow fall in two days my Davis bucket hasn't filled up yet even >though it is far shallower than 10". Since it isn't heated that >information might not be meaningfull however. It does seem that if >the cylindrical rain guages don't accurately capture all of the snow, >especially with strong wind, it seems it is best to use the >biscuit/snowboard method for measuring precipitation. > >I mentioned about the dramatic difference in what my 4" CoCoRaHS rain >guage caught vs. what actually fell on the ground using the snowboard method. > >I don't know of a reason my discrepancy would be so great if in fact >using the rain guage for snow depth is a viable method? > >Thanks, > >Lew > >****************************************** >Lew - Weathermaster >lew at farmingtonweather.com >Farmington Weather >www.farmingtonweather.com >Farmington, Minnesota, USA > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net >To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: >http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > From brillig at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 08:58:16 2007 From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 08:58:16 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <0914FA88945F4B7BAAE7997218D8DEFE@sauron> References: <0914FA88945F4B7BAAE7997218D8DEFE@sauron> Message-ID: On 12/5/07, Keith Miller wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net > > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net]On Behalf Of > > Victor Engel > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:45 AM > > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > > Subject: Re: [wxqc] wxqc Digest, Vol 38, Issue 6 > > > > > > > 24 inches? Wow. I had no idea. I think the most I've ever seen > > accumulated in Texas is about 4-5 inches. That's after 17 years in > > Texas (mostly Dallas and Austin). > > > > You don't know what snow is. :) Most dramatic pic I have from winter > '03: http://kdmiller.oldsgmail.com/misc/DCP_0348.JPG > But I've long heard stories of Oswego in the winter of '65-66. I was speaking just of Texas. One of the most impressive snowfalls I've seen was the dusting of snow on the Cuchumatanes Mountains in Guatemala. That was said to happen only once every 50 years or so. I've also been in Colorado when the road pass had to be dug out of 15-20 feet of snow. It was like driving through a tunnel. And then, of course, there was the record snowfall at Grouse Mountain near Vancouver (where my parents live) a couple years ago. The large wooden statues were all completely covered. I have some pictures of a couple of 35 foot tall trees taken from above (I was standing over them). I think the official snowfall accumulation while I was there was just over 10 meters. From brillig at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 17:40:13 2007 From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 17:40:13 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Pressure Frequency Analysis Message-ID: Does anyone know of any research into barometric pressure frequency analysis? Using my limited data set, it seems that there are strong spikes at 12, 24, 91, 177, and 113 hours. Beyond that timeframe, I think my dataset is insufficient to discern anything relevant. The first two spikes are obviously tidal oscillations. The 177 hour spike is probably a lunar tide component, since 177 hours is about 1/4 of a lunation. But I have no clue about the others. Perhaps the atmosphere sloshes around at certain resonent frequencies. Anyway, if anyone knows of papers on this subject, I'd be very interested. Victor From Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov Wed Dec 5 17:59:06 2007 From: Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov (Evan Bookbinder) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:59:06 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Pressure Frequency Analysis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00f801c8379a$d28fa660$6501a8c0@stormalerthp> Victor, I'm not sure why the moon or tides would have a modification on air pressure, so I would say this is more coincidence than a cause/effect. Spikes are the result of passing meteorological anomolies, causing an abrupt change in atmospheric pressure/density. Commons perturbations include: Frontal passages (cold fronts, warm fronts, drylines, sea breeze fronts, outflow boundaries) Thunderstorms Gravity waves Mountain waves I've had a long standing interest in barometry, and monitor mine on a daily basis. I have honestly never noticed any significant spikes which were not associated with accountable meteorological phenomena (and there's almost always some other change in temperature, dewpoint, or wind speed/direction). As for 12 and 24 hours...under benign weather conditions there's always a diurnal rise and fall associated with daytime heating/cooling, but this wouldn't be on the time scale of a "spike" as it's termed meteorologically. Evan > -----Original Message----- > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of > Victor Engel > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:40 PM > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > Subject: [wxqc] Pressure Frequency Analysis > > Does anyone know of any research into barometric pressure > frequency analysis? Using my limited data set, it seems that > there are strong spikes at 12, 24, 91, 177, and 113 hours. > Beyond that timeframe, I think my dataset is insufficient to > discern anything relevant. > > The first two spikes are obviously tidal oscillations. The > 177 hour spike is probably a lunar tide component, since 177 > hours is about 1/4 of a lunation. But I have no clue about > the others. Perhaps the atmosphere sloshes around at certain > resonent frequencies. > > Anyway, if anyone knows of papers on this subject, I'd be > very interested. > > Victor > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe > or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From brillig at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 18:12:53 2007 From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:12:53 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Pressure Frequency Analysis In-Reply-To: <00f801c8379a$d28fa660$6501a8c0@stormalerthp> References: <00f801c8379a$d28fa660$6501a8c0@stormalerthp> Message-ID: I see I need to clarify my use of the word spike. The spikes I referred to were not meant to describe spikes in barometric pressure. Rather, given a histogram of pressure cycle frequencies, I'm referring to spikes in the histogram. The barometric curve should reflect these spikes by having a sine wave component with wavelength matching the number of hours I listed. Why don't you think there should be a tidal effect on the atmosphere resulting in measurable pressure differences? Victor On Dec 5, 2007 5:59 PM, Evan Bookbinder wrote: > Victor, > > I'm not sure why the moon or tides would have a modification on air > pressure, so I would say this is more coincidence than a cause/effect. > Spikes are the result of passing meteorological anomolies, causing an abrupt > change in atmospheric pressure/density. > > Commons perturbations include: > Frontal passages (cold fronts, warm fronts, drylines, sea breeze fronts, > outflow boundaries) > Thunderstorms > Gravity waves > Mountain waves > > I've had a long standing interest in barometry, and monitor mine on a daily > basis. I have honestly never noticed any significant spikes which were not > associated with accountable meteorological phenomena (and there's almost > always some other change in temperature, dewpoint, or wind speed/direction). > > > As for 12 and 24 hours...under benign weather conditions there's always a > diurnal rise and fall associated with daytime heating/cooling, but this > wouldn't be on the time scale of a "spike" as it's termed meteorologically. > > Evan > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net > > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of > > Victor Engel > > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 5:40 PM > > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > > Subject: [wxqc] Pressure Frequency Analysis > > > > Does anyone know of any research into barometric pressure > > frequency analysis? Using my limited data set, it seems that > > there are strong spikes at 12, 24, 91, 177, and 113 hours. > > Beyond that timeframe, I think my dataset is insufficient to > > discern anything relevant. > > > > The first two spikes are obviously tidal oscillations. The > > 177 hour spike is probably a lunar tide component, since 177 > > hours is about 1/4 of a lunation. But I have no clue about > > the others. Perhaps the atmosphere sloshes around at certain > > resonent frequencies. > > > > Anyway, if anyone knows of papers on this subject, I'd be > > very interested. > > > > Victor > > _______________________________________________ > > wxqc mailing list > > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe > > or change delivery options, please go to: > > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net > To unsubcribe or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From brillig at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 18:26:31 2007 From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 18:26:31 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Pressure Frequency Analysis In-Reply-To: <00f801c8379a$d28fa660$6501a8c0@stormalerthp> References: <00f801c8379a$d28fa660$6501a8c0@stormalerthp> Message-ID: On Dec 5, 2007 5:59 PM, Evan Bookbinder wrote: > As for 12 and 24 hours...under benign weather conditions there's always a > diurnal rise and fall associated with daytime heating/cooling, but this > wouldn't be on the time scale of a "spike" as it's termed meteorologically. I don't buy it. If this were the case, I would expect to see a major 24 hour component and a negligible or minor 12 hour component. On the contrary, I see a major 12 hour component. That points to the major cause being tidal rather than caused by heating. If you disagree, I'd like to hear a more detailed explanation. Victor From Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov Wed Dec 5 18:55:34 2007 From: Evan.Bookbinder at noaa.gov (Evan Bookbinder) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:55:34 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Pressure Frequency Analysis In-Reply-To: References: <00f801c8379a$d28fa660$6501a8c0@stormalerthp> Message-ID: <010901c837a2$b58e9870$6501a8c0@stormalerthp> Victor, If there were no significant meteorological changes in your area, you will see the pressure reach a minimum during peak heating in the afternoon, with a maximum just prior to sunrise (at maximum cooling), in a resultant sine wave. Again, I am not understanding the tidal impact on *air* pressure. Again, in the absence of rapid vertical motions, the atmosphere is in hydrostatic balance, meaning that the vertical decrease in pressure (which would force air upwards), is balanced by the downward force of gravity. Was hoping you could enlighten me there. Based on rough calculations, the moon's effects on air would result in an average change of about 1/1000th of an inch of mercury (several orders of magnitude less than even the accuracy of your home weather station). Evan > -----Original Message----- > From: wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net > [mailto:wxqc-bounces at lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of > Victor Engel > Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:27 PM > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Pressure Frequency Analysis > > On Dec 5, 2007 5:59 PM, Evan Bookbinder > wrote: > > As for 12 and 24 hours...under benign weather conditions there's > > always a diurnal rise and fall associated with daytime > > heating/cooling, but this wouldn't be on the time scale of > a "spike" as it's termed meteorologically. > > I don't buy it. If this were the case, I would expect to see a major > 24 hour component and a negligible or minor 12 hour > component. On the contrary, I see a major 12 hour component. > That points to the major cause being tidal rather than caused > by heating. If you disagree, I'd like to hear a more detailed > explanation. > > Victor > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > Post messages to wxqc at lists.gladstonefamily.net To unsubcribe > or change delivery options, please go to: > http://server.gladstonefamily.net/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From brillig at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 19:20:09 2007 From: brillig at gmail.com (Victor Engel) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 19:20:09 -0600 Subject: [wxqc] Pressure Frequency Analysis In-Reply-To: <010901c837a2$b58e9870$6501a8c0@stormalerthp> References: <00f801c8379a$d28fa660$6501a8c0@stormalerthp> <010901c837a2$b58e9870$6501a8c0@stormalerthp> Message-ID: I'll give more details, but I'll be busy for the next day or so. On Dec 5, 2007 6:55 PM, Evan Bookbinder wrote: > Victor, > > If there were no significant meteorological changes in your area, you will > see the pressure reach a minimum during peak heating in the afternoon, with > a maximum just prior to sunrise (at maximum cooling), in a resultant sine > wave. There are two maxima and minima each day, not counting significant meteorological changes. But right now I don't care so much about causality as correlation. I suspect there are all sorts of positive feedback loops that strengthen certain patterns. > Again, I am not understanding the tidal impact on *air* pressure. Well, maybe I'm jumping to an incorrect conclusion. That was the obvious explanation to me for the twice daily maxima that I see. I can see how daily heating would explain a daily maximum, but not twice daily. I haven't thought this through yet though, so I'm sure I probably missed something. > Again, in > the absence of rapid vertical motions, the atmosphere is in hydrostatic > balance, meaning that the vertical decrease in pressure (which would force > air upwards), is balanced by the downward force of gravity. Was hoping you > could enlighten me there. Based on rough calculations, the moon's effects on > air would result in an average change of about 1/1000th of an inch of > mercury (several orders of magnitude less than even the accuracy of your > home weather station). And to that you'd have to add whatever feedback loops there may be. I have no idea what sort of feedback loops to expect. However, consider ocean tides. Out in the open ocean, the tides oscillate in a relatively low amplitude, predictable pattern. Add geographically induced oscillations, though, and you get some tides of tremendous amplitude, such as at Fundy Bay. Anyway, my original post was made because I'm looking for an answer. I don't have any suggested explanations at this point. Victor From steve at dimse.com Wed Dec 5 20:04:03 2007 From: steve at dimse.com (Steve Dimse) Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 21:04:03 -0500 Subject: [wxqc] Pressure Frequency Analysis In-Reply-To: References: <00f801c8379a$d28fa660$6501a8c0@stormalerthp> Message-ID: There is a language issue which is confusing this discussion. Consider that one one definition of tide at dictionary.com is "anything that alternately rises and falls, increases and decreases, etc.: the tide of the seasons.". In that light, the diurnal variation is certainly "tidal". You appear to be using tidal to mean caused by the moon. There is an atmospheric tide, but it is not caused by the moon. To think about the effect of the moon on the atmosphere, consider that the average depth of the ocean is thousands of feet of a much higher mass material, yet the tide, in the absence of resonance caused by coastal geography, is only a foot or two. There is a lunar tide of the atmosphere, but it is negligible. Your numbers actually prove that the moon is not the cause of what you observe, if it were you would see a frequency of 23.3 hours, yet the rise and fall is very close to 24 hours. The rise would happen at a very different time every week. (I'll get to the 12 hour thing in a moment.) The diurnal variation of pressure is caused by heating in a way, but I dislike language that links it too closely. If you take a number of atoms of gas, it has the same mass at absolute zero and at a million degrees, so you can't say the pressure (which is the weight of the atmosph