From dshelms at comcast.net Wed Feb 1 01:20:08 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Wed Feb 1 01:20:26 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files Message-ID: <43E05318.4040707@comcast.net> Hi All: Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data collection and processing! My data logging application does not really do what I want it to do so I developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate it every month. Over the last several years I have developed a modest station climatology of 4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals (BWI) station means and using the station's data as a temporary climatology baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough statistics to form my own station's stats). I monitor BWI climate data and other area stations to see if my data are in the ball-park. Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed for processing my station's climate data: CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.xls CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I added daily mean max/min temperatures this year http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookeville-md.xls Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for your uses. You can find reference climate data on you local NWS Weather Forecast Office web page or go to the National Climate Data Center (NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore Climate Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of documenting the DC Metro weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith (bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area stations, plots the data and manually contours the data then snail-mails copies of his analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there are any local climate groups to participate in! Regards, Dave CW0351 From topfcd at yahoo.com Wed Feb 1 08:17:42 2006 From: topfcd at yahoo.com (Chris Topf) Date: Wed Feb 1 08:17:47 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files In-Reply-To: <43E05318.4040707@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20060201131742.15804.qmail@web53404.mail.yahoo.com> Dave, thanks for the template submission. I have had my VP2 weather station for about 10 months now and I have been a little disappointed in the climate reporting features of the Weatherlink software. I like the overall report, but I am disappointed in that it doesn't contain the mean temp calculation like the NWS office monthly reports do and that I can't export the report in a tab-delimited format so I don't have to manually re-type the information into a spreadsheet. I think you've inspired me to embark on a climate project for my station! Although I've only had my VP2 for 10 months, I've been maintaining precipitation records for 10 years this July. Wow, hard to believe it's been that long! Chris CW3603 Dave Helms wrote: Hi All: Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data collection and processing! My data logging application does not really do what I want it to do so I developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate it every month. Over the last several years I have developed a modest station climatology of 4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals (BWI) station means and using the station's data as a temporary climatology baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough statistics to form my own station's stats). I monitor BWI climate data and other area stations to see if my data are in the ball-park. Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed for processing my station's climate data: CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.xls CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I added daily mean max/min temperatures this year http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookeville-md.xls Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for your uses. You can find reference climate data on you local NWS Weather Forecast Office web page or go to the National Climate Data Center (NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore Climate Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of documenting the DC Metro weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith (bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area stations, plots the data and manually contours the data then snail-mails copies of his analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there are any local climate groups to participate in! Regards, Dave CW0351 _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060201/ad296678/attachment.html From dshelms at comcast.net Wed Feb 1 12:21:49 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (dshelms@comcast.net) Date: Wed Feb 1 12:21:55 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files Message-ID: <020120061721.16346.43E0EE2D0000F1BB00003FDA22058861729C03040A089C0B@comcast.net> Hi Chris, Real-time monitoring of the atmosphere has its benefits, but understanding the content of our observations is a worthwhile effort too. I use the NWS "Local Climate Data" format (Form "F-6") to message my data. The process is a bit tedious to get the climate data into Excel, I display the monthly data using the WeatherDisplay "NOAA Format", swipe and copy the data onto the clipboard, paste into notepad, save the notepad file as *.txt, import the monthly *.txt file into Excel, and finally copy the raw unprocessed daily data from the imported *.txt file into my "master"template Excel climate file (once this is done, I throw away the temporary *.txt Excel file, but keep the Notepad file as a backup to the master Excel file). I don't use the WeatherDisplay mean or summation totals, but use Excel to do this. WD uses the average of all entries (10 minute updates) in the daily log to caluculate the average daily temp, while NOAA calculates the mean from the high and low temp ONLY (this is because many of the COOP stations only have these data, not a running log). We can compare our means to the NWS, we should use their algorithms to calculate our climate summaries. I update my precip totals (merging my 4" rain bucket and Peet Ultimeter Pro automated gauge data as the "best guess" daily total) in the "master" Excel rather than Wd since editing data files can be problematic. All this takes about 30 minutes every month (once I have a template file setup). It helps to have someone like Brian Smith/WBCR who is waiting for the data to motivate me to clean everything up for public consumption. Glad I can help! Dave CW0351 -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Chris Topf > Dave, > thanks for the template submission. I have had my VP2 weather station for > about 10 months now and I have been a little disappointed in the climate > reporting features of the Weatherlink software. I like the overall report, but > I am disappointed in that it doesn't contain the mean temp calculation like the > NWS office monthly reports do and that I can't export the report in a > tab-delimited format so I don't have to manually re-type the information into a > spreadsheet. > I think you've inspired me to embark on a climate project for my station! > Although I've only had my VP2 for 10 months, I've been maintaining precipitation > records for 10 years this July. Wow, hard to believe it's been that long! > > Chris > CW3603 > > Dave Helms wrote: > Hi All: > > Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data collection > and processing! > > My data logging application does not really do what I want it to do so I > developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate it every month. Over > the last several years I have developed a modest station climatology of > 4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals (BWI) > station means and using the station's data as a temporary climatology > baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough statistics to form my > own station's stats). I monitor BWI climate data and other area > stations to see if my data are in the ball-park. > > Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed for > processing my station's climate data: > > CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.xls > > CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I added daily > mean max/min temperatures this year > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookeville-md.xls > > Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for your > uses. You can find reference climate data on you local NWS Weather > Forecast Office web page or go to the National Climate Data Center > (NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. > > Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore Climate > Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of documenting the DC Metro > weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith > (bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area stations, plots > the data and manually contours the data then snail-mails copies of his > analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there are any > local climate groups to participate in! > > Regards, > > Dave > CW0351 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Chris Topf Subject: Re: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 13:18:34 +0000 Size: 7538 Url: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060201/7d1db0ed/attachment.mht From sam at wa4phy.net Wed Feb 1 13:56:20 2006 From: sam at wa4phy.net (Sam Drinkard) Date: Wed Feb 1 13:54:14 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files In-Reply-To: <43E05318.4040707@comcast.net> References: <43E05318.4040707@comcast.net> Message-ID: <43E10454.4020301@wa4phy.net> Hi Dave, Here's a Q. for you. I'm sure the climate data files really have a use for someone, but I believe I asked around sometime way back when I first started with the wx station, and nobody around here want them. I even checked the state climate office folks, and they told me since the equipment didn't meet NOAA minimum standards, the data was unusable. That being the case, and CAE does not want it, is there anybody else that could make use of the data? I did not ask the folks at CDC in Asheville, as I had no contact name there. The VWS automagicaly creates the climate data on a monthly and yearly basis, supposedly, in NOAA format. Sam From ranagrande at sbcglobal.net Wed Feb 1 14:28:09 2006 From: ranagrande at sbcglobal.net (Big Frog) Date: Wed Feb 1 14:28:13 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Re: wxqc Digest, Vol 15, Issue 26 CW4827 temp readings In-Reply-To: <200601181707.k0IGMFqY008217@ylpvm48.prodigy.net> References: <200601181707.k0IGMFqY008217@ylpvm48.prodigy.net> Message-ID: <43E10BC9.6020200@sbcglobal.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060201/4de4603e/attachment-0001.html From dmaier at avci.net Wed Feb 1 14:37:36 2006 From: dmaier at avci.net (Dennis Maier) Date: Wed Feb 1 14:37:49 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files In-Reply-To: <20060201131742.15804.qmail@web53404.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chris, When the "Browse Records" window is open there is an "Export Records..." menu selection under the "Browse" menu. This will allow you to export a selected time frame of records to a tab-delimited format. Dennis CW4869 _____ From: wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of Chris Topf Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 8:18 AM To: Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: Re: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files Dave, thanks for the template submission. I have had my VP2 weather station for about 10 months now and I have been a little disappointed in the climate reporting features of the Weatherlink software. I like the overall report, but I am disappointed in that it doesn't contain the mean temp calculation like the NWS office monthly reports do and that I can't export the report in a tab-delimited format so I don't have to manually re-type the information into a spreadsheet. I think you've inspired me to embark on a climate project for my station! Although I've only had my VP2 for 10 months, I've been maintaining precipitation records for 10 years this July. Wow, hard to believe it's been that long! Chris CW3603 Dave Helms wrote: Hi All: Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data collection and processing! My data logging application does not really do what I want it to do so I developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate it every month. Over the last several years I have developed a modest station climatology of 4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals (BWI) station means and using the station's data as a temporary climatology baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough statistics to form my own station's stats). I monitor BWI climate data and other area stations to see if my data are in the ball-park. Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed for processing my station's climate data: CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.xls CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I added daily mean max/min temperatures this year http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookeville-md.x ls Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for your uses. You can find reference climate data on you local NWS Weather Forecast Office web page or go to the National Climate Data Center (NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore Climate Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of documenting the DC Metro weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith (bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area stations, plots the data and manually contours the data then snail-mails copies of his analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there are any local climate groups to participate in! Regards, Dave CW0351 _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. _____ Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060201/865b0e88/attachment.html From dennis.carr at supportnow.org Wed Feb 1 15:30:15 2006 From: dennis.carr at supportnow.org (dennis.carr@supportnow.org) Date: Wed Feb 1 15:32:36 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 (John & Delta) Message-ID: <000001c6276e$536c2540$0b00a8c0@orion> I have a Lacrosse WS-2310 station which has the same problem and I have been trying to figure out what to do. I built a home made shield and with a constant fan drawing air across the sensors and still have the problem. I don't have any answers yet. You don't want to adjust with the software I'm told. My the sensor is located 20 feet from the house mounted on a pole 5 feet off the ground and is located over a grass. It says to adjust the dew point 3.3 ?F higher. http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C4227?tile=10;days=91#Data Dennis CW4227 -----Original Message----- From: wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of wxqc-request@lists.gladstonefamily.net Sent: None To: wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net Subject: wxqc Digest, Vol 16, Issue 1 Send wxqc mailing list submissions to wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to wxqc-request@lists.gladstonefamily.net You can reach the person managing the list at wxqc-owner@lists.gladstonefamily.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of wxqc digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Dewpoints for CW5204 (John & Delta) 2. Station Climate Data Files (Dave Helms) 3. Re: Station Climate Data Files (Chris Topf) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:42:04 -0500 From: "John & Delta" Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 To: Message-ID: <20060201024153.DKYC8904.mta13.adelphia.net@jacob> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi, I have a Davis Pro 2 station which I have only had for about 3 weeks now. The analysis for the last 3 days http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C5204?tile=10;days=3#Data shows a significant mean error in the dewpoint readings. I have the sensor set a good distance from the house mounted on a pole which is attached to a wooden post. The sensor is 5 feet off the ground and located over a grass area. It says to adjust the dewpoint down 2.6 degrees but I really don't want to do this unless absolutely necessary as it would be masking the real problem. Does anyone have any suggestion? Thanks, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060 131/607a40ca/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 01:20:08 -0500 From: Dave Helms Subject: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files To: wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net Message-ID: <43E05318.4040707@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi All: Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data collection and processing! My data logging application does not really do what I want it to do so I developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate it every month. Over the last several years I have developed a modest station climatology of 4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals (BWI) station means and using the station's data as a temporary climatology baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough statistics to form my own station's stats). I monitor BWI climate data and other area stations to see if my data are in the ball-park. Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed for processing my station's climate data: CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.x ls CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I added daily mean max/min temperatures this year http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookevill e-md.xls Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for your uses. You can find reference climate data on you local NWS Weather Forecast Office web page or go to the National Climate Data Center (NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore Climate Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of documenting the DC Metro weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith (bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area stations, plots the data and manually contours the data then snail-mails copies of his analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there are any local climate groups to participate in! Regards, Dave CW0351 ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 05:17:42 -0800 (PST) From: Chris Topf Subject: Re: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files To: Discussion of weather data quality issues Message-ID: <20060201131742.15804.qmail@web53404.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dave, thanks for the template submission. I have had my VP2 weather station for about 10 months now and I have been a little disappointed in the climate reporting features of the Weatherlink software. I like the overall report, but I am disappointed in that it doesn't contain the mean temp calculation like the NWS office monthly reports do and that I can't export the report in a tab-delimited format so I don't have to manually re-type the information into a spreadsheet. I think you've inspired me to embark on a climate project for my station! Although I've only had my VP2 for 10 months, I've been maintaining precipitation records for 10 years this July. Wow, hard to believe it's been that long! Chris CW3603 Dave Helms wrote: Hi All: Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data collection and processing! My data logging application does not really do what I want it to do so I developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate it every month. Over the last several years I have developed a modest station climatology of 4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals (BWI) station means and using the station's data as a temporary climatology baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough statistics to form my own station's stats). I monitor BWI climate data and other area stations to see if my data are in the ball-park. Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed for processing my station's climate data: CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.x ls CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I added daily mean max/min temperatures this year http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookevill e-md.xls Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for your uses. You can find reference climate data on you local NWS Weather Forecast Office web page or go to the National Climate Data Center (NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore Climate Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of documenting the DC Metro weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith (bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area stations, plots the data and manually contours the data then snail-mails copies of his analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there are any local climate groups to participate in! Regards, Dave CW0351 _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more on new and used cars. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060 201/ad296678/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ wxqc mailing list wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc The contents of these messages are the responsibility of the author(s). End of wxqc Digest, Vol 16, Issue 1 *********************************** From dmaier at avci.net Wed Feb 1 16:30:51 2006 From: dmaier at avci.net (Dennis Maier) Date: Wed Feb 1 16:31:08 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 (John & Delta) In-Reply-To: <000001c6276e$536c2540$0b00a8c0@orion> Message-ID: I'm confused (nothing new for me) isn't Dew point a calculated value derived from temperature and humidity. I was under the impression only barometric pressure, temperature, humidity and wind info was transferred to CWOP. And if that is correct who/what is doing the dew point calculations? Dennis CW4869 > -----Original Message----- > From: wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net > [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of > dennis.carr@supportnow.org > Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:30 PM > To: wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 (John & Delta) > > I have a Lacrosse WS-2310 station which has the same problem > and I have been trying to figure out what to do. I built a > home made shield and with a constant fan drawing air across > the sensors and still have the problem. > I don't have any answers yet. You don't want to adjust with > the software I'm told. My the sensor is located 20 feet from > the house mounted on a pole 5 feet off the ground and is > located over a grass. > It says to adjust the dew point 3.3 ?F higher. > http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C4227?tile=10;days=91#Data > > Dennis > CW4227 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net > [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of > wxqc-request@lists.gladstonefamily.net > Sent: None > To: wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > Subject: wxqc Digest, Vol 16, Issue 1 > > Send wxqc mailing list submissions to > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > wxqc-request@lists.gladstonefamily.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > wxqc-owner@lists.gladstonefamily.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific than "Re: Contents of wxqc digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Dewpoints for CW5204 (John & Delta) > 2. Station Climate Data Files (Dave Helms) > 3. Re: Station Climate Data Files (Chris Topf) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:42:04 -0500 > From: "John & Delta" > Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 > To: > Message-ID: <20060201024153.DKYC8904.mta13.adelphia.net@jacob> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi, > > > > I have a Davis Pro 2 station which I have only had for > about 3 weeks now. > The analysis for the last 3 days > http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C5204?tile=10;days=3#Data > shows a > significant mean error in the dewpoint readings. I have the > sensor set a good distance from the house mounted on a pole > which is attached to a wooden post. The sensor is 5 feet off > the ground and located over a grass area. > It says to adjust the dewpoint down 2.6 degrees but I really > don't want to do this unless absolutely necessary as it would > be masking the real problem. > Does anyone have any suggestion? > > > > Thanks, > > > > John > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060 > 131/607a40ca/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 01:20:08 -0500 > From: Dave Helms > Subject: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files > To: wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > Message-ID: <43E05318.4040707@comcast.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi All: > > Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data > collection and processing! > > My data logging application does not really do what I want it > to do so I developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate > it every month. > Over > the last several years I have developed a modest station > climatology of > 4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals > (BWI) > station means and using the station's data as a temporary > climatology baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough > statistics to form my own station's stats). I monitor BWI > climate data and other area stations to see if my data are in > the ball-park. > > Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed > for processing my station's climate data: > > CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.x > ls > > CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I > added daily mean max/min temperatures this year > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookevill > e-md.xls > > Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for > your uses. You can find reference climate data on you local > NWS Weather Forecast Office web page or go to the National > Climate Data Center > (NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. > > Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore > Climate Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of > documenting the DC Metro > > weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith > (bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area > stations, plots the data and manually contours the data then > snail-mails copies of his > > analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there > are any local climate groups to participate in! > > Regards, > > Dave > CW0351 > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 05:17:42 -0800 (PST) > From: Chris Topf > Subject: Re: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files > To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > > Message-ID: <20060201131742.15804.qmail@web53404.mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dave, > thanks for the template submission. I have had my VP2 > weather station for about 10 months now and I have been a > little disappointed in the climate reporting features of the > Weatherlink software. I like the overall report, but I am > disappointed in that it doesn't contain the mean temp > calculation like the NWS office monthly reports do and that I > can't export the report in a tab-delimited format so I don't > have to manually re-type the information into a spreadsheet. > I think you've inspired me to embark on a climate project > for my station! Although I've only had my VP2 for 10 months, > I've been maintaining precipitation records for 10 years this > July. Wow, hard to believe it's been that long! > > Chris > CW3603 > > Dave Helms wrote: > Hi All: > > Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data > collection and processing! > > My data logging application does not really do what I want it > to do so I developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate > it every month. > Over > the last several years I have developed a modest station > climatology of > 4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals > (BWI) > station means and using the station's data as a temporary > climatology baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough > statistics to form my own station's stats). I monitor BWI > climate data and other area stations to see if my data are in > the ball-park. > > Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed > for processing my station's climate data: > > CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.x > ls > > CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I added daily > > mean max/min temperatures this year > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookevill > e-md.xls > > Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for > your uses. You can find reference climate data on you local > NWS Weather Forecast Office web page or go to the National > Climate Data Center > (NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. > > Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore > Climate Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of > documenting the DC Metro > > weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith > (bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area > stations, plots the data and manually contours the data then > snail-mails copies of his > > analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there > are any local climate groups to participate in! > > Regards, > > Dave > CW0351 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, > reviews, & more on new and used cars. > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060 > 201/ad296678/attachment-0001.html > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of these messages are the responsibility of the > author(s). > > > End of wxqc Digest, Vol 16, Issue 1 > *********************************** > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > From Michael.F.Barth at noaa.gov Wed Feb 1 16:42:03 2006 From: Michael.F.Barth at noaa.gov (Mike Barth) Date: Wed Feb 1 16:42:07 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 (John & Delta) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dennis, Temperature and humidity are indeed reported by CWOP. The MADIS QC uses these to calculate dewpoint, and the QC is then applied to that variable. Hope this clears things up, Mike On Wed, 1 Feb 2006, Dennis Maier wrote: > I'm confused (nothing new for me) isn't Dew point a calculated value derived > from temperature and humidity. I was under the impression only barometric > pressure, temperature, humidity and wind info was transferred to CWOP. And > if that is correct who/what is doing the dew point calculations? > > Dennis > CW4869 > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of >> dennis.carr@supportnow.org >> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 3:30 PM >> To: wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 (John & Delta) >> >> I have a Lacrosse WS-2310 station which has the same problem >> and I have been trying to figure out what to do. I built a >> home made shield and with a constant fan drawing air across >> the sensors and still have the problem. >> I don't have any answers yet. You don't want to adjust with >> the software I'm told. My the sensor is located 20 feet from >> the house mounted on a pole 5 feet off the ground and is >> located over a grass. >> It says to adjust the dew point 3.3 ?F higher. >> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C4227?tile=10;days=91#Data >> >> Dennis >> CW4227 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> [mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of >> wxqc-request@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> Sent: None >> To: wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> Subject: wxqc Digest, Vol 16, Issue 1 >> >> Send wxqc mailing list submissions to >> wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> wxqc-request@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> wxqc-owner@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more >> specific than "Re: Contents of wxqc digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Dewpoints for CW5204 (John & Delta) >> 2. Station Climate Data Files (Dave Helms) >> 3. Re: Station Climate Data Files (Chris Topf) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:42:04 -0500 >> From: "John & Delta" >> Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 >> To: >> Message-ID: <20060201024153.DKYC8904.mta13.adelphia.net@jacob> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I have a Davis Pro 2 station which I have only had for >> about 3 weeks now. >> The analysis for the last 3 days >> http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C5204?tile=10;days=3#Data >> shows a >> significant mean error in the dewpoint readings. I have the >> sensor set a good distance from the house mounted on a pole >> which is attached to a wooden post. The sensor is 5 feet off >> the ground and located over a grass area. >> It says to adjust the dewpoint down 2.6 degrees but I really >> don't want to do this unless absolutely necessary as it would >> be masking the real problem. >> Does anyone have any suggestion? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> >> >> John >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060 >> 131/607a40ca/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 01:20:08 -0500 >> From: Dave Helms >> Subject: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files >> To: wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> Message-ID: <43E05318.4040707@comcast.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Hi All: >> >> Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data >> collection and processing! >> >> My data logging application does not really do what I want it >> to do so I developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate >> it every month. >> Over >> the last several years I have developed a modest station >> climatology of >> 4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals >> (BWI) >> station means and using the station's data as a temporary >> climatology baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough >> statistics to form my own station's stats). I monitor BWI >> climate data and other area stations to see if my data are in >> the ball-park. >> >> Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed >> for processing my station's climate data: >> >> CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: >> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.x >> ls >> >> CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I >> added daily mean max/min temperatures this year >> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookevill >> e-md.xls >> >> Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for >> your uses. You can find reference climate data on you local >> NWS Weather Forecast Office web page or go to the National >> Climate Data Center >> (NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. >> >> Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore >> Climate Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of >> documenting the DC Metro >> >> weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith >> (bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area >> stations, plots the data and manually contours the data then >> snail-mails copies of his >> >> analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there >> are any local climate groups to participate in! >> >> Regards, >> >> Dave >> CW0351 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 05:17:42 -0800 (PST) >> From: Chris Topf >> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files >> To: Discussion of weather data quality issues >> >> Message-ID: <20060201131742.15804.qmail@web53404.mail.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Dave, >> thanks for the template submission. I have had my VP2 >> weather station for about 10 months now and I have been a >> little disappointed in the climate reporting features of the >> Weatherlink software. I like the overall report, but I am >> disappointed in that it doesn't contain the mean temp >> calculation like the NWS office monthly reports do and that I >> can't export the report in a tab-delimited format so I don't >> have to manually re-type the information into a spreadsheet. >> I think you've inspired me to embark on a climate project >> for my station! Although I've only had my VP2 for 10 months, >> I've been maintaining precipitation records for 10 years this >> July. Wow, hard to believe it's been that long! >> >> Chris >> CW3603 >> >> Dave Helms wrote: >> Hi All: >> >> Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data >> collection and processing! >> >> My data logging application does not really do what I want it >> to do so I developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate >> it every month. >> Over >> the last several years I have developed a modest station >> climatology of >> 4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals >> (BWI) >> station means and using the station's data as a temporary >> climatology baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough >> statistics to form my own station's stats). I monitor BWI >> climate data and other area stations to see if my data are in >> the ball-park. >> >> Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed >> for processing my station's climate data: >> >> CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: >> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.x >> ls >> >> CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I added daily >> >> mean max/min temperatures this year >> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookevill >> e-md.xls >> >> Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for >> your uses. You can find reference climate data on you local >> NWS Weather Forecast Office web page or go to the National >> Climate Data Center >> (NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. >> >> Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore >> Climate Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of >> documenting the DC Metro >> >> weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith >> (bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area >> stations, plots the data and manually contours the data then >> snail-mails copies of his >> >> analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there >> are any local climate groups to participate in! >> >> Regards, >> >> Dave >> CW0351 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> wxqc mailing list >> wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >> >> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. >> >> >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, >> reviews, & more on new and used cars. >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060 >> 201/ad296678/attachment-0001.html >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> wxqc mailing list >> wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >> >> The contents of these messages are the responsibility of the >> author(s). >> >> >> End of wxqc Digest, Vol 16, Issue 1 >> *********************************** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> wxqc mailing list >> wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >> >> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From dshelms at comcast.net Wed Feb 1 21:06:42 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Wed Feb 1 21:06:46 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204... La Crosse WS-2310 In-Reply-To: <000001c6276e$536c2540$0b00a8c0@orion> References: <000001c6276e$536c2540$0b00a8c0@orion> Message-ID: <43E16932.6060208@comcast.net> Hi Dennis, You siting is as good as one can hope. Lets treat stations on a case by case basis. Here is the last 10 days of data for your stations: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?&call=CW4227&last=240 In your station's case, its seems that the humidity sensor is the completely unable of reaching saturation/100%. For locations outside the desert and high plains, including Wisconsin, 100% humidity conditions are very common. Therefore, this inability to saturate likely accounts for much of your station's "dry bias" for your location. Looking at the La Crosse WS-2310 manual, page 19: http://www.lacrossetechnology.info/pdf/pwc/WS-2310.pdf* *"Measuring Range Rel. Humidity: 20% to 95% (if the relative humidity is less than 20% or greater than 95%, it will display 19% or 96%)" So, it appears the WS-2310 cannot measure 100% humidity because it is a design limitation, no adjustments or hardware failures are possible.* * While I'm discussing the WS-2310, its worthwhile to make the point that its temperature shield does not offer adequate ventilation in direct sun during light winds: http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/lacrossetechnology-at-psmall/tx4u-144a.jpg I often suggest people with nasty solar spikes to replace the LaCrosse shield with a standard Gill (plate) shield. GaryO: I know WeatherMatrix used to have a table of performance specs of various weather stations. Does WeatherForum.net maintain an up-to-date list such as this??? Dave CW0351 dennis.carr@supportnow.org wrote: >I have a Lacrosse WS-2310 station which has the same problem and I >have been trying to figure out what to do. I built a home made shield >and with a constant fan drawing air across the sensors and still have >the problem. >I don't have any answers yet. You don't want to adjust with the >software I'm told. My the sensor is located 20 feet from the house >mounted on a pole 5 feet off the ground and is located over a grass. >It says to adjust the dew point 3.3 ?F higher. >http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C4227?tile=10;days=91#Data > >Dennis >CW4227 > > > -----Original Message----- >From: wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net >[mailto:wxqc-bounces@lists.gladstonefamily.net] On Behalf Of >wxqc-request@lists.gladstonefamily.net >Sent: None >To: wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >Subject: wxqc Digest, Vol 16, Issue 1 > >Send wxqc mailing list submissions to > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > wxqc-request@lists.gladstonefamily.net > >You can reach the person managing the list at > wxqc-owner@lists.gladstonefamily.net > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of wxqc digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Dewpoints for CW5204 (John & Delta) > 2. Station Climate Data Files (Dave Helms) > 3. Re: Station Climate Data Files (Chris Topf) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:42:04 -0500 >From: "John & Delta" >Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 >To: >Message-ID: <20060201024153.DKYC8904.mta13.adelphia.net@jacob> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi, > > > > I have a Davis Pro 2 station which I have only had for about 3 >weeks now. >The analysis for the last 3 days >http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C5204?tile=10;days=3#Data >shows a >significant mean error in the dewpoint readings. I have the sensor >set a >good distance from the house mounted on a pole which is attached to a >wooden >post. The sensor is 5 feet off the ground and located over a grass >area. >It says to adjust the dewpoint down 2.6 degrees but I really don't >want to >do this unless absolutely necessary as it would be masking the real >problem. >Does anyone have any suggestion? > > > >Thanks, > > > >John > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: >http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060 >131/607a40ca/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 01:20:08 -0500 >From: Dave Helms >Subject: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files >To: wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >Message-ID: <43E05318.4040707@comcast.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >Hi All: > >Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data >collection >and processing! > >My data logging application does not really do what I want it to do so >I >developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate it every month. >Over >the last several years I have developed a modest station climatology >of >4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals >(BWI) >station means and using the station's data as a temporary climatology >baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough statistics to form my >own station's stats). I monitor BWI climate data and other area >stations to see if my data are in the ball-park. > >Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed for >processing my station's climate data: > >CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: >http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.x >ls > >CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I added >daily >mean max/min temperatures this year >http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookevill >e-md.xls > >Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for your >uses. You can find reference climate data on you local NWS Weather >Forecast Office web page or go to the National Climate Data Center >(NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. > >Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore Climate >Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of documenting the DC Metro > >weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith >(bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area stations, >plots >the data and manually contours the data then snail-mails copies of his > >analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there are any >local climate groups to participate in! > >Regards, > >Dave >CW0351 > > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 05:17:42 -0800 (PST) >From: Chris Topf >Subject: Re: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files >To: Discussion of weather data quality issues > >Message-ID: <20060201131742.15804.qmail@web53404.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Dave, > thanks for the template submission. I have had my VP2 weather >station for about 10 months now and I have been a little disappointed >in the climate reporting features of the Weatherlink software. I like >the overall report, but I am disappointed in that it doesn't contain >the mean temp calculation like the NWS office monthly reports do and >that I can't export the report in a tab-delimited format so I don't >have to manually re-type the information into a spreadsheet. > I think you've inspired me to embark on a climate project for my >station! Although I've only had my VP2 for 10 months, I've been >maintaining precipitation records for 10 years this July. Wow, hard >to believe it's been that long! > >Chris > CW3603 > >Dave Helms wrote: > Hi All: > >Hey... is February 1st, time to start your 2006 climate data >collection >and processing! > >My data logging application does not really do what I want it to do so >I >developed my own Excel spread sheet and I populate it every month. >Over >the last several years I have developed a modest station climatology >of >4 years by borrowing from the Baltimore-Washington Internationals >(BWI) >station means and using the station's data as a temporary climatology >baseline (in another 6 years I will have enough statistics to form my >own station's stats). I monitor BWI climate data and other area >stations to see if my data are in the ball-park. > >Here are some examples of the Excel files I have developed for >processing my station's climate data: > >CW0351 Station Summary for 2005: >http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2005_brookeville-md.x >ls > >CW0351 Template file for 2006 monthly climate data: note I added daily > >mean max/min temperatures this year >http://mywebpages.comcast.net/brookevilleweather/2006_blank_brookevill >e-md.xls > >Feel free to download the Excel templates and modify them for your >uses. You can find reference climate data on you local NWS Weather >Forecast Office web page or go to the National Climate Data Center >(NCDC) and order the closest COOP station climatology. > >Local Climate "Clubs": I belong to the Washington-Baltimore Climate >Review (WBCR) which has a 20+ year history of documenting the DC Metro > >weather, quite an impressive group run by Brian Smith >(bgs11111@erols.com). Brian compiles data from 200 area stations, >plots >the data and manually contours the data then snail-mails copies of his > >analyzes every month. I encourage everyone to see if there are any >local climate groups to participate in! > >Regards, > >Dave >CW0351 > > > > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > >--------------------------------- > Yahoo! Autos. Looking for a sweet ride? Get pricing, reviews, & more >on new and used cars. >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: >http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060 >201/ad296678/attachment-0001.html > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of these messages are the responsibility of the >author(s). > > >End of wxqc Digest, Vol 16, Issue 1 >*********************************** > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > From dshelms at comcast.net Wed Feb 1 22:13:37 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Wed Feb 1 22:13:41 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files In-Reply-To: <43E10454.4020301@wa4phy.net> References: <43E05318.4040707@comcast.net> <43E10454.4020301@wa4phy.net> Message-ID: <43E178E1.2040609@comcast.net> Hi Sam, I know you have put a lot of effort into squaring away your station so I would dispute the claim that your equipment, properly sited, does not meet NOAA minimum standards. This may be a case of "not invented here". I don't consider my Peet Bros Ultimeter to be a top of the line system, and my siting is not perfect, but I was able to measure 49.43 inches of annual rain in 2005, while BWI recorded 49.14 inches of annual rain. I know my monthly mean temperatures are consistent with BWI as well. Long term consistency with professional sensors should get you a little respect. I am a believer in the Field of Dreams movie saying, "if you build it, (he) they will come". So, NOAA climate people aren't thrilled about my data, no big deal, give then another couple years of quality data collection and they will change their tune. I have authorized Brian Hamilton/WBCR to release my climate data to contractors and insurance people who have approached him. In the last two weeks strangers have emailed me thanking me for making my data available; one used my rainfall to solve a drainage problem that had previously caused flooding problems in his finished basement and another person said his mother lived in a nearby assisted living community and he liked to know how cold it was so he could check up on mom. My home owner's association links to my page and so neighborhood mom's know how to dress the kids for the bus in the morning. The short answer to your question is don't let a lack or interest from the official climate community stop you from creating your own station's long term climate record. Once you have a long period of record of quality data, many different groups will appreciate your statistics. Dave CW0351 Sam Drinkard wrote: > Hi Dave, > > Here's a Q. for you. I'm sure the climate data files really have a > use for someone, but I believe I asked around sometime way back when I > first started with the wx station, and nobody around here want them. > I even checked the state climate office folks, and they told me since > the equipment didn't meet NOAA minimum standards, the data was > unusable. That being the case, and CAE does not want it, is there > anybody else that could make use of the data? I did not ask the folks > at CDC in Asheville, as I had no contact name there. The VWS > automagicaly creates the climate data on a monthly and yearly basis, > supposedly, in NOAA format. > > Sam > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > From sam at wa4phy.net Wed Feb 1 23:14:54 2006 From: sam at wa4phy.net (Sam Drinkard) Date: Wed Feb 1 23:12:52 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Station Climate Data Files In-Reply-To: <43E178E1.2040609@comcast.net> References: <43E05318.4040707@comcast.net> <43E10454.4020301@wa4phy.net> <43E178E1.2040609@comcast.net> Message-ID: <43E1873E.7010109@wa4phy.net> Dave Helms wrote: > Hi Sam, > > I know you have put a lot of effort into squaring away your station so > I would dispute the claim that your equipment, properly sited, does > not meet NOAA minimum standards. This may be a case of "not invented > here". I don't consider my Peet Bros Ultimeter to be a top of the > line system, and my siting is not perfect, but I was able to measure > 49.43 inches of annual rain in 2005, while BWI recorded 49.14 inches > of annual rain. I know my monthly mean temperatures are consistent > with BWI as well. Long term consistency with professional sensors > should get you a little respect. > I am a believer in the Field of Dreams movie saying, "if you build it, > (he) they will come". So, NOAA climate people aren't thrilled about > my data, no big deal, give then another couple years of quality data > collection and they will change their tune. I have authorized Brian > Hamilton/WBCR to release my climate data to contractors and insurance > people who have approached him. In the last two weeks strangers have > emailed me thanking me for making my data available; one used my > rainfall to solve a drainage problem that had previously caused > flooding problems in his finished basement and another person said > his mother lived in a nearby assisted living community and he liked > to know how cold it was so he could check up on mom. My home owner's > association links to my page and so neighborhood mom's know how to > dress the kids for the bus in the morning. > The short answer to your question is don't let a lack or interest from > the official climate community stop you from creating your own > station's long term climate record. Once you have a long period of > record of quality data, many different groups will appreciate your > statistics. > > Dave > CW0351 > Dave, the odd thing about the state climate office is the fact that they use some type of OTS equipment looking very much like some of the vantage or perhaps the peet bros, mounted on a tripod near one of the local greenhouse/plant nurseries in several locations. One of those also happens to be near Dearing if my memory serves me correctly, and tho Dearing is a very small community, it it by no means near the center of the county, nor is it a very populous place. I suspect I trashed the message I got back from the climatologist assistant, but in essence she just flat refused to accept any data. I believe I also mentioned the data was QC'd thru MADIS, but apparently that made no difference. My friend Dan Turner, wa4bro in Roswell, GA had a contractor wanting data at 15 minute intervals for a considerable long period of time. Dan has the data, and they were willing to pay good money for it, but guess they somehow backed out. I know there were times when I worked for the Corps of Engineers, I'd wished for good climate records to defend or refute a contractors claim for a contract extension due to weather delays, as he claimed, but common sense did not play a part. The gov't won the case simply because of a well worded rebutal to his data. So, I know it has both a real value and intrinsic value, just as the case for the coop snow observer program started last year. Lack of enough snow data is causing havoc with the long term climate databases. Sam From jdkuhn at adelphia.net Thu Feb 2 09:23:43 2006 From: jdkuhn at adelphia.net (jdkuhn@adelphia.net) Date: Thu Feb 2 09:23:53 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204.. LaCrosse WS-2310 Message-ID: <18628673.1138890223294.JavaMail.root@web21> I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my RH sensor (Davis Pro 2 only 3 weeks old) or if I should adjust it upwards. The dewpoints correspond fairly good with surrounding stations (KMRB, C0146, c1672) but my RH seems to be my issue. The analysis for the Dewpoint yesterday seems weird. It jumps from 20 to 25 around 1600. Looking at the last severl days shows that the analysis of RH is 10 to 15 % off most of the time. http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C5204?tile=10;days=3#Data Any thoughts on what to do? Should I adjust the RH upwards? Thanks, John CW5204 From sam at wa4phy.net Thu Feb 2 09:46:59 2006 From: sam at wa4phy.net (Sam Drinkard) Date: Thu Feb 2 09:44:57 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204.. LaCrosse WS-2310 In-Reply-To: <18628673.1138890223294.JavaMail.root@web21> References: <18628673.1138890223294.JavaMail.root@web21> Message-ID: <43E21B63.9020909@wa4phy.net> jdkuhn@adelphia.net wrote: >I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my RH sensor (Davis Pro 2 only 3 weeks old) or if I should adjust it upwards. The dewpoints correspond fairly good with surrounding stations (KMRB, C0146, c1672) but my RH seems to be my issue. The analysis for the Dewpoint yesterday seems weird. It jumps from 20 to 25 around 1600. Looking at the last severl days shows that the analysis of RH is 10 to 15 % off most of the time. > >http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C5204?tile=10;days=3#Data > > >Any thoughts on what to do? Should I adjust the RH upwards? > >Thanks, > >John >CW5204 > > John, Aside from your spikes, there are a couple of other stations you are being compared with (I suspect) and the few I looked at have a bad case of the jaggies, however Dave or Mike might be able to find more info than is from Phil's website. Definately something flakey.. Sam From dshelms at comcast.net Thu Feb 2 10:18:41 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (dshelms@comcast.net) Date: Thu Feb 2 10:18:46 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204.. LaCrosse WS-2310 Message-ID: <020220061518.2441.43E222D1000C11620000098922058864429C03040A089C0B@comcast.net> Hi John, Your data looks fine as compared to KMRB and other CWOPers (even GaryO): http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/qchart/C5204?date=20060202&addnl=KMRB&addnl=C0146&addnl=C1672&addnl=C4571&Add+to+charts=Add+to+charts&.cgifields=addnl There is probably some "unseen" WeatherBug station close to you that is causing the humidity flakiness. I would not recommend any adjustments as your data is good. Also, we usually encourage people to build up a month or more of station QCMS statistics before attempting to judge sensor performance. Dave CW0351 -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Sam Drinkard > jdkuhn@adelphia.net wrote: > > >I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my RH sensor (Davis Pro 2 only 3 > weeks old) or if I should adjust it upwards. The dewpoints correspond fairly > good with surrounding stations (KMRB, C0146, c1672) but my RH seems to be my > issue. The analysis for the Dewpoint yesterday seems weird. It jumps from 20 > to 25 around 1600. Looking at the last severl days shows that the analysis of > RH is 10 to 15 % off most of the time. > > > >http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C5204?tile=10;days=3#Data > > > > > >Any thoughts on what to do? Should I adjust the RH upwards? > > > >Thanks, > > > >John > >CW5204 > > > > > John, > > Aside from your spikes, there are a couple of other stations you are > being compared with (I suspect) and the few I looked at have a bad case > of the jaggies, however Dave or Mike might be able to find more info > than is from Phil's website. Definately something flakey.. > > Sam > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. From dshelms at comcast.net Thu Feb 2 10:48:24 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (dshelms@comcast.net) Date: Thu Feb 2 10:48:31 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Re: CW4827 temp readings Message-ID: <020220061548.18213.43E229C7000B1CF40000472522007614389C03040A089C0B@comcast.net> Hi Baxter, Its tough to answer a question when you don't include some of the most recent thread.... its really hard when you include other info from a digest subscription! OK, your temp/rh sensors are way up on the triple-decker bench house roof-top situation. Roof-top siting for temp/RH sensors is not recommended since heat from the roofing material can contaminate the temperature/RH measure (temps too high, RH too low during the day, night should be generally OK). However in your case, I would expect the persistent south to southeast trade winds to keep your sensors well ventilated most of the time which would minimize the impact of a roof-top siting. For a tropical location such as your's (South Padre Island, Texas), we usually see very smooth and well behaved temperature and dew point time series similar to this new station in Key West, Florida: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?call=CW5092!Key%20West&last=120 Side-bar... I like looking at the tropical stations' pressure to see the influence of the moon and daily atmospheric heating on surface pressure (e.g. diurnal (twice daily) pressure variation). Check out this Puerto Rican station's pressure which shows two minor max and min pressures per day: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?call=N1TKK-1!San%20Juan&last=240 ... further north, the mid-latitude pressure systems mark out this signal! While you haven't been sending data in the last couple days, the data we received last week seems rather noisey: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxpage.cgi?call=CW4827!S.%20Padre%20Island&last=120 Its the noise in your temp/RH that is causing your data to be flagged (standard deviation is very high, 7.6 F): http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C4827?tile=10;days=14#Data Aside from your sub-optimal siting of the temp/RH sensor on the roof, I believe you have a problem with data quality as a result of a noisy communications between the temp/RH sensors and your Vantage Pro console. Do you have a wired or wireless connection to the sensors? I would start checking for a bad cable or poor wireless connection and go from there. Dave CW0351 -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Baxter or Nancy Moyer Subject: [wxqc] Re: CW4827 temp readings (Thomas Hybiske) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:01:44 +0000 Size: 4376 Url: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060202/6e750fa8/attachment.mht From jdkuhn at adelphia.net Thu Feb 2 18:21:15 2006 From: jdkuhn at adelphia.net (John & Delta) Date: Thu Feb 2 18:21:06 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 Message-ID: <20060202232057.OKDG7811.mta11.adelphia.net@jacob> Dave , Thanks for your response. Is there anyway that the offending station can be removed from the system as it has a significant impact on me and also has an effect on surrounding CWOP stations. Good data is getting thrown out because of a faulty sensor of another station. John CW5204 Hi John, Your data looks fine as compared to KMRB and other CWOPers (even GaryO): http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/qchart/C5204?date=20060202 &addnl=KMRB&addnl=C0146&addnl=C1672&addnl=C4571&Add+to+charts=Add+to+charts& .cgifields=addnl There is probably some "unseen" WeatherBug station close to you that is causing the humidity flakiness. I would not recommend any adjustments as your data is good. Also, we usually encourage people to build up a month or more of station QCMS statistics before attempting to judge sensor performance. Dave CW0351 -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Sam Drinkard > > jdkuhn at adelphia.net wrote: > > >I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my RH sensor (Davis Pro 2 only 3 > weeks old) or if I should adjust it upwards. The dewpoints correspond fairly > good with surrounding stations (KMRB, C0146, c1672) but my RH seems to be my > issue. The analysis for the Dewpoint yesterday seems weird. It jumps from 20 > to 25 around 1600. Looking at the last severl days shows that the analysis of > RH is 10 to 15 % off most of the time. > > > >http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C5204?tile=10;days=3#Data > > > > > >Any thoughts on what to do? Should I adjust the RH upwards? > > > >Thanks, > > > >John > >CW5204 > > > > > John, > > Aside from your spikes, there are a couple of other stations you are > being compared with (I suspect) and the few I looked at have a bad case > of the jaggies, however Dave or Mike might be able to find more info > than is from Phil's website. Definately something flakey.. > > Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060202/cec44c62/attachment.html From dshelms at comcast.net Thu Feb 2 21:49:47 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Thu Feb 2 21:49:52 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 In-Reply-To: <20060202232057.OKDG7811.mta11.adelphia.net@jacob> References: <20060202232057.OKDG7811.mta11.adelphia.net@jacob> Message-ID: <43E2C4CB.3080104@comcast.net> John, The QCMS analsysis is not perfect, but most of the time its pretty good. Despite some anomalies in the analysis, your data still has three green checks. Whatever crappy stations may be in your vicinity, a good station is a good station absolutely. Flags that QCMS applies to a particular observation and parameter do not necessarily mean that the data is bad, just something someone using the data may want to take a second look at. Dave CW0351 John & Delta wrote: > Dave , > > > > Thanks for your response. Is there anyway that the offending > station can be removed from the system as it has a significant impact > on me and also has an effect on surrounding CWOP stations. Good data > is getting thrown out because of a faulty sensor of another station. > > > > John > > CW5204 > > > >Hi John, > > > >Your data looks fine as compared to KMRB and other CWOPers (even GaryO): > >http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/qchart/C5204?date=20060202&addnl=KMRB&addnl=C0146&addnl=C1672&addnl=C4571&Add+to+charts=Add+to+charts&.cgifields=addnl > > > >There is probably some "unseen" WeatherBug station close to you that is causing the humidity flakiness. I would not recommend any adjustments as your data is good. Also, we usually encourage people to build up a month or more of station QCMS statistics before attempting to judge sensor performance. > > > > > >Dave > >CW0351 > > > > > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- > >From: Sam Drinkard > > >>/ jdkuhn at adelphia.net wrote:/ > >>/ / > >>/ >I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my RH sensor (Davis Pro 2 only 3 / > >>/ weeks old) or if I should adjust it upwards. The dewpoints correspond fairly / > >>/ good with surrounding stations (KMRB, C0146, c1672) but my RH seems to be my / > >>/ issue. The analysis for the Dewpoint yesterday seems weird. It jumps from 20 / > >>/ to 25 around 1600. Looking at the last severl days shows that the analysis of / > >>/ RH is 10 to 15 % off most of the time. / > >>/ >/ > >>/ >http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/C5204?tile=10;days=3#Data/ > >>/ >/ > >>/ >/ > >>/ >Any thoughts on what to do? Should I adjust the RH upwards? / > >>/ >/ > >>/ >Thanks,/ > >>/ >/ > >>/ >John/ > >>/ >CW5204/ > >>/ > / > >>/ >/ > >>/ John,/ > >>/ / > >>/ Aside from your spikes, there are a couple of other stations you are / > >>/ being compared with (I suspect) and the few I looked at have a bad case / > >>/ of the jaggies, however Dave or Mike might be able to find more info / > >>/ than is from Phil's website. Definately something flakey../ > >>/ / > >>/ Sam/ > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From mtnguyz at msn.com Sat Feb 4 21:40:01 2006 From: mtnguyz at msn.com (GEORGE TATE) Date: Sat Feb 4 21:40:09 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Incorrect temperature readings Message-ID: I've been getting the wrong minimum temperature readings. I believe there is a problem with the data logger transferring information to weatherview. I've had my computer on since I set up my new Vantage Pro 2 and weatherlink. It was transferring data fine until today when I needed to restart my computer. When I did the weatherlink data logger changed all the minimum temperatures from since I started collecting data. Example from 46.5 to 0.5 and its similar for every day. It only lists the wrong data on the line for minimum temperature for the day not the minute to minute readings for the whole day. I do have the weatherlink software on the computer. Could that be the problem? Should I delete it completely? I'm not sure what to do. Thanks. P.S. I have a cabled Vantage Pro 2 and it hasn't recorded the wrong data on the console. Also, I download to weatherunderground, anythingweather, and APRSWX and the wrong data hasn't been downloaded to them either. George Tate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060204/a15508db/attachment.html From mtnguyz at msn.com Sat Feb 4 22:49:53 2006 From: mtnguyz at msn.com (GEORGE TATE) Date: Sat Feb 4 22:49:56 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Re: Incorrect minimum temperatures Message-ID: I have the weatherview32 software, version 7, for windows and this software sends to weatherunderground, anythingweather, and APRSWX. When I installed the weatherview software the weatherview manual said "using the weatherlink software, set your Vantage Pro calibration and logging interval. Set the time and date. Make the Baud Rate 19200." So I have the software loaded in the computer but I'm using weatherview. The first 24 hours of my Vantage Pro2 being installed and using the weatherlink data logger I got a wrong minimum temperature reading. It looked to me like a dewpoint reading. I read through the Vantage Pro console manual and realized I hadn't cleared it before using it. I did that and it worked fine until today. When I restarted my computer and opened the weatherview program it stated that it was downloading weatherlink data. When it did, that it changed all the minimum temperature readings for the previous days to the incorrect ones. Some minus 0 or the teens, way off the actual reading but only for the minimum temperature. It only records these incorrect readings on the line for the lowest temperature reading of the day. That incorrect reading is not listed anywhere in the minute to minute reading for the entire day. George Tate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060204/04c83fcb/attachment.html From dshelms at comcast.net Sat Feb 4 23:11:40 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Sat Feb 4 23:11:39 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Re: Incorrect minimum temperatures In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43E57AFC.70907@comcast.net> What CWOP ID # is your station? GEORGE TATE wrote: > I have the weatherview32 software, version 7, for windows and this > software sends to weatherunderground, anythingweather, and APRSWX. > When I installed the weatherview software the weatherview manual said > "using the weatherlink software, set your Vantage Pro calibration and > logging interval. Set the time and date. Make the Baud Rate 19200." > So I have the software loaded in the computer but I'm using > weatherview. The first 24 hours of my Vantage Pro2 being installed > and using the weatherlink data logger I got a wrong minimum > temperature reading. It looked to me like a dewpoint reading. I read > through the Vantage Pro console manual and realized I hadn't cleared > it before using it. I did that and it worked fine until today. When > I restarted my computer and opened the weatherview program it stated > that it was downloading weatherlink data. When it did, that it > changed all the minimum temperature readings for the previous days to > the incorrect ones. Some minus 0 or the teens, way off the actual > reading but only for the minimum temperature. It only records these > incorrect readings on the line for the lowest temperature reading of > the day. That incorrect reading is not listed anywhere in the minute > to minute reading for the entire day. > > George Tate > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From BackForty at BlandRanch.net Sun Feb 5 01:24:05 2006 From: BackForty at BlandRanch.net (Charles Bland) Date: Sun Feb 5 01:24:16 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking In-Reply-To: <013020061435.6377.43DE24280004E70A000018E922064244139C03040A089C0B@comcast.net> Message-ID: <43E52985.7995.2F80EF0@localhost> Me and my Peet Bros Weather Station live in the Sierra Nevada mountains at 3500 ft AMSL. My nearest airport with AWOS is at approximately 1700 ft AMSL. http://www.airnav.com/airport/O70 So, when I calibrate my barometer AT THE AIRPORT, then take it home, the reading always falls because of the elevation/air pressure change. My question is, how do I adjust the AWOS reading at the airport to compensate for the elevation change to my house? Is there a ballpark number for air pressure change as you change elevation? Chuck p.s. a recent power outage here really goofed my station, so if you look the data quality page for me (CW4289) it is going to look REAL BAD. So, since my station battery died and I lost a bunch of data, I took the opportunity to solve my calibration problem on the barometer. From mtnguyz at msn.com Sun Feb 5 07:08:41 2006 From: mtnguyz at msn.com (GEORGE TATE) Date: Sun Feb 5 07:08:47 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Re: Incorrect Minimum Temperature Readings Message-ID: My CWOP number is 4878 but all the data being sent out is correct. George Tate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060205/b63e19bd/attachment.html From gary.oldham at adelphia.net Sun Feb 5 10:01:52 2006 From: gary.oldham at adelphia.net (gary.oldham@adelphia.net) Date: Sun Feb 5 10:02:01 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Re: Incorrect Minimum Temperature Readings Message-ID: <15354891.1139151712253.JavaMail.root@web11> --George, I haven't tested version 7 of WeatherView32, though I had little trouble downloading logger data into version 6, but it sure sounds like a bug with WeatherView32 to me. I don't think that WeatherLink has anything to do with the issue you described. When WeatherView32 says it is downloading data from "WeatherLink," it is really describing the process of downloading data from the datalogger (which many people erroneously refer to as WeatherLink, which, properly, is only the Davis software, not the datalogger itself.) If this was the first download of data from your Vantage Pro into WeatherView32, you might think about deleting the WeatherView32 data files and downloading again afresh in the event it was a transient occurrence. You'll probably lose a bit of your data from furthest back as the datalogger has probably "rolled over" your initial data, but it *might* provide a clean download this time. Gary CW0146 gary.oldham(at)adelphia.net ---- GEORGE TATE wrote: ============= My CWOP number is 4878 but all the data being sent out is correct. George Tate From gwbuxton at ntbb.net Sun Feb 5 10:28:33 2006 From: gwbuxton at ntbb.net (Gerald Buxton) Date: Sun Feb 5 10:28:57 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 In-Reply-To: <43E2C4CB.3080104@comcast.net> Message-ID: I too am having trouble with my dewpoint, the analysys saying that it needs to be adjusted down about 4 degrees on the average (depending on which day you check the analysis). http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/AR194 The Peet solar shielded temp/humidity sensor being new when the error began being reported back in October of 2005, I did some checks with a sling psychrometer I built using two very similar thermometers. The psychrometer readings support the dewpoint readings of the station. The sensor is mounted on a 5 foot pole 50 feet away from the house in over native grasses (or what is left of them due to the winter and drought). Is it possible that the analysis is not accurate due to other readings in the area (although the closest readings according to the analysis page are 15 to 20 miles away) or do you think my sensor is out of whack? Thank you for any suggestions. Jerry AR194 N0JY On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:49:47 -0500, Dave Helms wrote: >John, > >The QCMS analsysis is not perfect, but most of the time its pretty >good. Despite some anomalies in the analysis, your data still has three >green checks. Whatever crappy stations may be in your vicinity, a good >station is a good station absolutely. Flags that QCMS applies to a >particular observation and parameter do not necessarily mean that the >data is bad, just something someone using the data may want to take a >second look at. > >Dave >CW0351 > From dshelms at comcast.net Sun Feb 5 12:16:47 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Sun Feb 5 12:16:59 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking In-Reply-To: <43E52985.7995.2F80EF0@localhost> References: <43E52985.7995.2F80EF0@localhost> Message-ID: <43E632FF.1050304@comcast.net> Hi Chuck, Altimeter corrects pressue to sea level so you do not have to account for elevation differences between your station and the reference station. Just match the reported airport METAR altimeter pressure ("QNH" XX.XX inches of Mercury (Hg) or "INS") to your corrected altimeter pressure. Listen to the Amador METAR report from its AWOS station by calling 209-257-1292 (this is on the airnav.com page). Dave CW0351 P.S. Near sea-level, pressure decreases about 0.001 inch of Mercury for every foot in the vertical. Station pressure is only used when comparing two station's raw, uncorrected, station pressures. Station pressure is not generally available from ASOS/AWOS stations. In addition to requiring both (raw) station pressures in inches of Mercury, you also need both station's elevations in feet to do a comparison. Charles Bland wrote: >Me and my Peet Bros Weather Station live in the Sierra Nevada mountains at 3500 >ft AMSL. > >My nearest airport with AWOS is at approximately 1700 ft AMSL. >http://www.airnav.com/airport/O70 > >So, when I calibrate my barometer AT THE AIRPORT, then take it home, the >reading always falls because of the elevation/air pressure change. > >My question is, how do I adjust the AWOS reading at the airport to compensate >for the elevation change to my house? Is there a ballpark number for air >pressure change as you change elevation? > >Chuck > >p.s. a recent power outage here really goofed my station, so if you look the >data quality page for me (CW4289) it is going to look REAL BAD. So, since my >station battery died and I lost a bunch of data, I took the opportunity to >solve my calibration problem on the barometer. > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > From dshelms at comcast.net Sun Feb 5 13:18:56 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Sun Feb 5 13:19:11 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Dewpoints for CW5204 (Ultimeter) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43E64190.9080704@comcast.net> Hi Jerry, Your siting sounds fine and the sling calibration is great. However, its not uncommon for Ultimeter humidity sensors to run a bit high, I know mine does. Looking at stations RHs in your area: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/wxnear.cgi?call=N0JY-5 .. you are reporting the highest RH of twenty stations. I would not think there is a good reason for your station having elevated RH measurements given your location in north central Texas. On the other hand, your humidity measurements are not outragiously high and the overall trend is very reasonable. If you decide to change anything (your RH measurements are pretty good right now), I suggest a minor humidity sensor adjustment at the board level. Please refer to this archive thread for adjusting the Ultimeter: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/2005-July/000345.html Hope this helps, Dave CW0351 Gerald Buxton wrote: >I too am having trouble with my dewpoint, the analysys saying that it >needs to be adjusted down about 4 degrees on the average (depending on >which day you check the analysis). > >http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/site/AR194 > >The Peet solar shielded temp/humidity sensor being new when the error >began being reported back in October of 2005, I did some checks with a >sling psychrometer I built using two very similar thermometers. The >psychrometer readings support the dewpoint readings of the station. >The sensor is mounted on a 5 foot pole 50 feet away from the house in >over native grasses (or what is left of them due to the winter and >drought). Is it possible that the analysis is not accurate due to >other readings in the area (although the closest readings according to >the analysis page are 15 to 20 miles away) or do you think my sensor is >out of whack? > >Thank you for any suggestions. >Jerry >AR194 >N0JY > >On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:49:47 -0500, Dave Helms wrote: > > > >>John, >> >>The QCMS analsysis is not perfect, but most of the time its pretty >>good. Despite some anomalies in the analysis, your data still has three >>green checks. Whatever crappy stations may be in your vicinity, a good >>station is a good station absolutely. Flags that QCMS applies to a >>particular observation and parameter do not necessarily mean that the >>data is bad, just something someone using the data may want to take a >>second look at. >> >>Dave >>CW0351 >> >> >> > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > From BackForty at BlandRanch.net Sun Feb 5 19:35:00 2006 From: BackForty at BlandRanch.net (Charles Bland) Date: Sun Feb 5 19:35:10 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking In-Reply-To: <43E632FF.1050304@comcast.net> References: <43E52985.7995.2F80EF0@localhost> Message-ID: <43E62934.10711.6DECF0C@localhost> Dave, I'm trying to get a mental handle on this statement. "Altimeter corrects pressure to sea level so you do not have to account for elevation differences between your station and the reference station. " A quick piece of background.... What started all this is the CWOP Quality page for my station. At the time (not now; it's all screwed-up now because of my earlier outage) the data quality site said my barometer was off but temps and humidity were fine. Since watching that, I've been on a quest to understand barometer calibration and how I can my barometric data quality up. So, from the quote above, are you saying that the corrected sea level pressure, as measured at the airport, is probably the same corrected pressure for my house, even though I am 1810 feet higher? I took a drive to day with my barometer. I had set it to the reading announced by the airport AWOS, 30.07". By the time I got to the airport, the barometer was reading 2 inches higher. No surprise. I set it again then drove home. Yup, the reading was 2 inches lower. According to the fudge-factor you gave me, I would expect to see a 1.8" difference, which isn't far from the 2" delta that was measured. How do I pull this all together? Also, is my Ultimeter 2100 capable of displaying absolute air pressure? It doesn't come out and say that in the manual. It does say I can display pressure in three difference units, hPa/mbar, inHg, or mmHg. I'm going to presume that inches and mm HG are relative. How about hPa/mbar? Relative or absolute? Dave et al, thanks for your patience in this. It is facinating stuff, but also a steep learning curve. Chuck I went for a nice Sunday afternoon drive today and found a 2" Hg difference from my house to the airport. Note Dave Helms's stunning brilliance and Chuck's apt reply (gack!) Date sent: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 12:16:47 -0500 From: Dave Helms To: BackForty@BlandRanch.net, Discussion of weather data quality issues Subject: Re: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking > Hi Chuck, > > Altimeter corrects pressue to sea level so you do not have to account > for elevation differences between your station and the reference > station. Just match the reported airport METAR altimeter pressure > ("QNH" XX.XX inches of Mercury (Hg) or "INS") to your corrected > altimeter pressure. Listen to the Amador METAR report from its AWOS > station by calling 209-257-1292 (this is on the airnav.com page). > > Dave > CW0351 > > P.S. Near sea-level, pressure decreases about 0.001 inch of Mercury for > every foot in the vertical. Station pressure is only used when > comparing two station's raw, uncorrected, station pressures. Station > pressure is not generally available from ASOS/AWOS stations. In > addition to requiring both (raw) station pressures in inches of Mercury, > you also need both station's elevations in feet to do a comparison. > > Charles Bland wrote: > > >Me and my Peet Bros Weather Station live in the Sierra Nevada mountains at 3500 > >ft AMSL. > > > >My nearest airport with AWOS is at approximately 1700 ft AMSL. > >http://www.airnav.com/airport/O70 > > > >So, when I calibrate my barometer AT THE AIRPORT, then take it home, the > >reading always falls because of the elevation/air pressure change. > > > >My question is, how do I adjust the AWOS reading at the airport to compensate > >for the elevation change to my house? Is there a ballpark number for air > >pressure change as you change elevation? > > > >Chuck > > > >p.s. a recent power outage here really goofed my station, so if you look the > >data quality page for me (CW4289) it is going to look REAL BAD. So, since my > >station battery died and I lost a bunch of data, I took the opportunity to > >solve my calibration problem on the barometer. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >wxqc mailing list > >wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > >http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > > > > > > > > > From tomh at sprynet.com Sun Feb 5 21:55:31 2006 From: tomh at sprynet.com (Tom Hargrave) Date: Sun Feb 5 21:55:37 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Data from CW4204, CW2984, KRAS vs. K5BV (AR105) Message-ID: <43E6BAA3.2000206@sprynet.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/pipermail/wxqc/attachments/20060205/7676946e/attachment.html From dshelms at comcast.net Sun Feb 5 23:08:21 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Sun Feb 5 23:08:34 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking In-Reply-To: <43E62934.10711.6DECF0C@localhost> References: <43E52985.7995.2F80EF0@localhost> <43E62934.10711.6DECF0C@localhost> Message-ID: <43E6CBB5.8010908@comcast.net> Chuck, Here is as simple as I can say it, the (altimeter) pressure at the airport is not the true pressure at the airport (the true pressure is the raw, uncorrected, station pressure which is not typically sent to the public). Its the pressure you would have at the airport IF you got in an elevator and pushed "G" and descend through bedrock to sea level directly below the airport. The altimeter pressure correction ADDs the hypothetical pressure between a station's true elevation and sea level so weather folks can do an apples to apples comparison between stations with different elevations. Here is the easy way out of this deal, on an afternoon with little or no winds... 1. Set your Ultimeter console pressure units to "inHg" (or just "in") for inches of Mercury 2. Call the weather station automated report #, 209-257-1292 3. Write down the pressure the AWOS says is the current pressure (altimeter), it will be XX.XX inches (of Mercury or the atomic element code "Hg", get it!) 4. Adjust your Peet Ultimeter to the AWOS pressure using the Peet instructions for adjusting pressure 5. Watch the QCMS for a week or two to see if you hit the target The Peet Ultimeter instructions are terrible at telling people how to set their pressure. Essentially, whatever reference pressure you use to set your pressure (in CWOP's case, airport ASOS altimeter), that is the "type" of pressure your station is then reporting. This will work, trust me. Dave CW0351 Charles Bland wrote: >Dave, > >I'm trying to get a mental handle on this statement. > >"Altimeter corrects pressure to sea level so you do not have to account >for elevation differences between your station and the reference >station. " > >A quick piece of background.... What started all this is the CWOP Quality page >for my station. At the time (not now; it's all screwed-up now because of my >earlier outage) the data quality site said my barometer was off but temps and >humidity were fine. Since watching that, I've been on a quest to understand >barometer calibration and how I can my barometric data quality up. > >So, from the quote above, are you saying that the corrected sea level pressure, >as measured at the airport, is probably the same corrected pressure for my >house, even though I am 1810 feet higher? > >I took a drive to day with my barometer. I had set it to the reading announced >by the airport AWOS, 30.07". By the time I got to the airport, the barometer >was reading 2 inches higher. No surprise. I set it again then drove home. > >Yup, the reading was 2 inches lower. > >According to the fudge-factor you gave me, I would expect to see a 1.8" >difference, which isn't far from the 2" delta that was measured. > >How do I pull this all together? > >Also, is my Ultimeter 2100 capable of displaying absolute air pressure? It >doesn't come out and say that in the manual. It does say I can display pressure >in three difference units, hPa/mbar, inHg, or mmHg. I'm going to presume that >inches and mm HG are relative. How about hPa/mbar? Relative or absolute? > >Dave et al, thanks for your patience in this. It is facinating stuff, but also >a steep learning curve. > >Chuck > >I went for a nice Sunday afternoon drive today and found a 2" Hg difference >from my house to the airport. > >Note Dave Helms's stunning brilliance and Chuck's apt reply (gack!) > >Date sent: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 12:16:47 -0500 >From: Dave Helms >To: BackForty@BlandRanch.net, > Discussion of weather data quality issues >Subject: Re: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking > > > >>Hi Chuck, >> >>Altimeter corrects pressue to sea level so you do not have to account >>for elevation differences between your station and the reference >>station. Just match the reported airport METAR altimeter pressure >>("QNH" XX.XX inches of Mercury (Hg) or "INS") to your corrected >>altimeter pressure. Listen to the Amador METAR report from its AWOS >>station by calling 209-257-1292 (this is on the airnav.com page). >> >>Dave >>CW0351 >> >>P.S. Near sea-level, pressure decreases about 0.001 inch of Mercury for >>every foot in the vertical. Station pressure is only used when >>comparing two station's raw, uncorrected, station pressures. Station >>pressure is not generally available from ASOS/AWOS stations. In >>addition to requiring both (raw) station pressures in inches of Mercury, >>you also need both station's elevations in feet to do a comparison. >> >>Charles Bland wrote: >> >> >> >>>Me and my Peet Bros Weather Station live in the Sierra Nevada mountains at 3500 >>>ft AMSL. >>> >>>My nearest airport with AWOS is at approximately 1700 ft AMSL. >>>http://www.airnav.com/airport/O70 >>> >>>So, when I calibrate my barometer AT THE AIRPORT, then take it home, the >>>reading always falls because of the elevation/air pressure change. >>> >>>My question is, how do I adjust the AWOS reading at the airport to compensate >>>for the elevation change to my house? Is there a ballpark number for air >>>pressure change as you change elevation? >>> >>>Chuck >>> >>>p.s. a recent power outage here really goofed my station, so if you look the >>>data quality page for me (CW4289) it is going to look REAL BAD. So, since my >>>station battery died and I lost a bunch of data, I took the opportunity to >>>solve my calibration problem on the barometer. >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>wxqc mailing list >>>wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >>>http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >>> >>>The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > > > > From dshelms at comcast.net Sun Feb 5 23:24:36 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Sun Feb 5 23:24:47 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Data from CW4204, CW2984, KRAS vs. K5BV (AR105) In-Reply-To: <43E6BAA3.2000206@sprynet.com> References: <43E6BAA3.2000206@sprynet.com> Message-ID: <43E6CF84.6060004@comcast.net> Hi Tom, The analysis assumes that, more often than not, station data are generally good by virtue of having their own professional calibration. We know that this is not always true so the analysis is simply a first guess and not "truth". It is very possible for a cluster of stations to error in the wrong direction equally thereby influencing the analysis in a negative way. I watch the analysis with one eye and the representative ASOS stations with the other (in my area, DCA is as close as BWI to me, but I use BWI since its away from the big cities about the same distance as my station; DCA is a poor reference station since its in an urban area and next to the tidal Potomac River (warm in the winter), so not at all representative of the conditions my weather station is situated in. You are right to ignore the explicit QCMS values it you know the analysis is contaminated. In this case, its better to look at a nearby and representative ASOS/AWOS station instead. Dave CW0351 Tom Hargrave wrote: > It appears that the data from CW2984, KRAS vs. K5BV (AR105) would be > graded OK if it were not biased by CW4204. In fact it appears that > CW4204 is weighted with more merit than other stations, closer stations. > > I do not feel I should make any adjustments as the "standard" is > biased by CW4204 with I see should be questioned and likely rejected. > BAROMETER > http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/qchart/AR105?date=20060206&sensor=baro&addnl=AR105&addnl=C2984&addnl=KRAS&addnl=C4204 > > DEW POINT > http://weather.gladstonefamily.net/qchart/AR105?date=20060206&sensor=dewp&addnl=AR105&addnl=C2984&addnl=KRAS&addnl=C4204 > > Further, the algorithms building the "analysis" (standard) line > appears to not account for the time shift. A station 20 miles away > vs. others 4 and 7 miles would have events occurring at different times. > > What is a fellow to do except ignore the WXQA reports. I feel that > using KRAS, which I would presume has official status, likely > maintained to traceable standards is a better measure that the "analysis." > > Interesting, reviewing the reports for CW4204, I see it is the only > correct station in the area for some intervals. > > Tom Hargrave. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >wxqc mailing list >wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > >The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From sam at wa4phy.net Sun Feb 5 23:33:21 2006 From: sam at wa4phy.net (Sam Drinkard) Date: Sun Feb 5 23:33:26 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking In-Reply-To: <43E6CBB5.8010908@comcast.net> References: <43E52985.7995.2F80EF0@localhost> <43E62934.10711.6DECF0C@localhost> <43E6CBB5.8010908@comcast.net> Message-ID: <43E6D191.1050309@wa4phy.net> Chuck, I don't know if this might confuse the issue even more, but here's a pretty good link that does a decent job of describing atmospheric pressure. Altho it does not go into great detail about the difference between station pressure & altimeter, the graphics do explain *why* the pressure is different, and with a bit of thinking, you'll see how the altimeter readings are obtained. http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/fw/prs/def.rxml The whole website is great for general reading and info. Sam ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dave Helms wrote: > Chuck, > > Here is as simple as I can say it, the (altimeter) pressure at the > airport is not the true pressure at the airport (the true pressure is > the raw, uncorrected, station pressure which is not typically sent to > the public). Its the pressure you would have at the airport IF you > got in an elevator and pushed "G" and descend through bedrock to sea > level directly below the airport. The altimeter pressure correction > ADDs the hypothetical pressure between a station's true elevation and > sea level so weather folks can do an apples to apples comparison > between stations with different elevations. > Here is the easy way out of this deal, on an afternoon with little or > no winds... > 1. Set your Ultimeter console pressure units to "inHg" (or just "in") > for inches of Mercury > 2. Call the weather station automated report #, 209-257-1292 > 3. Write down the pressure the AWOS says is the current pressure > (altimeter), it will be XX.XX inches (of Mercury or the atomic element > code "Hg", get it!) > 4. Adjust your Peet Ultimeter to the AWOS pressure using the Peet > instructions for adjusting pressure > 5. Watch the QCMS for a week or two to see if you hit the target > > The Peet Ultimeter instructions are terrible at telling people how to > set their pressure. Essentially, whatever reference pressure you use > to set your pressure (in CWOP's case, airport ASOS altimeter), that is > the "type" of pressure your station is then reporting. > > This will work, trust me. > > Dave > CW0351 > > Charles Bland wrote: > >> Dave, >> >> I'm trying to get a mental handle on this statement. >> >> "Altimeter corrects pressure to sea level so you do not have to >> account for elevation differences between your station and the >> reference station. " >> >> A quick piece of background.... What started all this is the CWOP >> Quality page for my station. At the time (not now; it's all >> screwed-up now because of my earlier outage) the data quality site >> said my barometer was off but temps and humidity were fine. Since >> watching that, I've been on a quest to understand barometer >> calibration and how I can my barometric data quality up. >> >> So, from the quote above, are you saying that the corrected sea level >> pressure, as measured at the airport, is probably the same corrected >> pressure for my house, even though I am 1810 feet higher? >> >> I took a drive to day with my barometer. I had set it to the reading >> announced by the airport AWOS, 30.07". By the time I got to the >> airport, the barometer was reading 2 inches higher. No surprise. I >> set it again then drove home. >> >> Yup, the reading was 2 inches lower. >> >> According to the fudge-factor you gave me, I would expect to see a >> 1.8" difference, which isn't far from the 2" delta that was measured. >> >> How do I pull this all together? >> >> Also, is my Ultimeter 2100 capable of displaying absolute air >> pressure? It doesn't come out and say that in the manual. It does say >> I can display pressure in three difference units, hPa/mbar, inHg, or >> mmHg. I'm going to presume that inches and mm HG are relative. How >> about hPa/mbar? Relative or absolute? >> >> Dave et al, thanks for your patience in this. It is facinating stuff, >> but also a steep learning curve. >> >> Chuck >> >> I went for a nice Sunday afternoon drive today and found a 2" Hg >> difference from my house to the airport. >> >> Note Dave Helms's stunning brilliance and Chuck's apt reply (gack!) >> >> Date sent: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 12:16:47 -0500 >> From: Dave Helms >> To: BackForty@BlandRanch.net, >> Discussion of weather data quality issues >> >> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking >> >> >> >>> Hi Chuck, >>> >>> Altimeter corrects pressue to sea level so you do not have to >>> account for elevation differences between your station and the >>> reference station. Just match the reported airport METAR altimeter >>> pressure ("QNH" XX.XX inches of Mercury (Hg) or "INS") to your >>> corrected altimeter pressure. Listen to the Amador METAR report >>> from its AWOS station by calling 209-257-1292 (this is on the >>> airnav.com page). >>> Dave >>> CW0351 >>> >>> P.S. Near sea-level, pressure decreases about 0.001 inch of Mercury >>> for every foot in the vertical. Station pressure is only used when >>> comparing two station's raw, uncorrected, station pressures. >>> Station pressure is not generally available from ASOS/AWOS >>> stations. In addition to requiring both (raw) station pressures in >>> inches of Mercury, you also need both station's elevations in feet >>> to do a comparison. >>> Charles Bland wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Me and my Peet Bros Weather Station live in the Sierra Nevada >>>> mountains at 3500 ft AMSL. >>>> >>>> My nearest airport with AWOS is at approximately 1700 ft AMSL. >>>> http://www.airnav.com/airport/O70 >>>> >>>> So, when I calibrate my barometer AT THE AIRPORT, then take it >>>> home, the reading always falls because of the elevation/air >>>> pressure change. >>>> >>>> My question is, how do I adjust the AWOS reading at the airport to >>>> compensate for the elevation change to my house? Is there a >>>> ballpark number for air pressure change as you change elevation? >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> p.s. a recent power outage here really goofed my station, so if you >>>> look the data quality page for me (CW4289) it is going to look REAL >>>> BAD. So, since my station battery died and I lost a bunch of data, >>>> I took the opportunity to solve my calibration problem on the >>>> barometer. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> wxqc mailing list >>>> wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >>>> http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >>>> >>>> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > From dshelms at comcast.net Sun Feb 5 23:37:37 2006 From: dshelms at comcast.net (Dave Helms) Date: Sun Feb 5 23:37:47 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking In-Reply-To: <43E6D191.1050309@wa4phy.net> References: <43E52985.7995.2F80EF0@localhost> <43E62934.10711.6DECF0C@localhost> <43E6CBB5.8010908@comcast.net> <43E6D191.1050309@wa4phy.net> Message-ID: <43E6D291.9080206@comcast.net> You might try reading the CWOP Guide section on pressure too, I borrowed heavily from the UIUC site. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dshelms/CWOP_Guide.pdf Sam Drinkard wrote: > Chuck, > > I don't know if this might confuse the issue even more, but here's > a pretty good link that does a decent job of describing atmospheric > pressure. Altho it does not go into great detail about the difference > between station pressure & altimeter, the graphics do explain *why* > the pressure is different, and with a bit of thinking, you'll see how > the altimeter readings are obtained. > > http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/fw/prs/def.rxml > > The whole website is great for general reading and info. > Sam > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Dave Helms wrote: > >> Chuck, >> >> Here is as simple as I can say it, the (altimeter) pressure at the >> airport is not the true pressure at the airport (the true pressure is >> the raw, uncorrected, station pressure which is not typically sent to >> the public). Its the pressure you would have at the airport IF you >> got in an elevator and pushed "G" and descend through bedrock to sea >> level directly below the airport. The altimeter pressure correction >> ADDs the hypothetical pressure between a station's true elevation and >> sea level so weather folks can do an apples to apples comparison >> between stations with different elevations. >> Here is the easy way out of this deal, on an afternoon with little or >> no winds... >> 1. Set your Ultimeter console pressure units to "inHg" (or just >> "in") for inches of Mercury >> 2. Call the weather station automated report #, 209-257-1292 >> 3. Write down the pressure the AWOS says is the current pressure >> (altimeter), it will be XX.XX inches (of Mercury or the atomic >> element code "Hg", get it!) >> 4. Adjust your Peet Ultimeter to the AWOS pressure using the Peet >> instructions for adjusting pressure >> 5. Watch the QCMS for a week or two to see if you hit the target >> >> The Peet Ultimeter instructions are terrible at telling people how to >> set their pressure. Essentially, whatever reference pressure you use >> to set your pressure (in CWOP's case, airport ASOS altimeter), that >> is the "type" of pressure your station is then reporting. >> >> This will work, trust me. >> >> Dave >> CW0351 >> >> Charles Bland wrote: >> >>> Dave, >>> >>> I'm trying to get a mental handle on this statement. >>> >>> "Altimeter corrects pressure to sea level so you do not have to >>> account for elevation differences between your station and the >>> reference station. " >>> >>> A quick piece of background.... What started all this is the CWOP >>> Quality page for my station. At the time (not now; it's all >>> screwed-up now because of my earlier outage) the data quality site >>> said my barometer was off but temps and humidity were fine. Since >>> watching that, I've been on a quest to understand barometer >>> calibration and how I can my barometric data quality up. >>> >>> So, from the quote above, are you saying that the corrected sea >>> level pressure, as measured at the airport, is probably the same >>> corrected pressure for my house, even though I am 1810 feet higher? >>> >>> I took a drive to day with my barometer. I had set it to the reading >>> announced by the airport AWOS, 30.07". By the time I got to the >>> airport, the barometer was reading 2 inches higher. No surprise. I >>> set it again then drove home. >>> >>> Yup, the reading was 2 inches lower. >>> >>> According to the fudge-factor you gave me, I would expect to see a >>> 1.8" difference, which isn't far from the 2" delta that was measured. >>> >>> How do I pull this all together? >>> >>> Also, is my Ultimeter 2100 capable of displaying absolute air >>> pressure? It doesn't come out and say that in the manual. It does >>> say I can display pressure in three difference units, hPa/mbar, >>> inHg, or mmHg. I'm going to presume that inches and mm HG are >>> relative. How about hPa/mbar? Relative or absolute? >>> >>> Dave et al, thanks for your patience in this. It is facinating >>> stuff, but also a steep learning curve. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> I went for a nice Sunday afternoon drive today and found a 2" Hg >>> difference from my house to the airport. >>> >>> Note Dave Helms's stunning brilliance and Chuck's apt reply (gack!) >>> >>> Date sent: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 12:16:47 -0500 >>> From: Dave Helms >>> To: BackForty@BlandRanch.net, >>> Discussion of weather data quality issues >>> >>> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi Chuck, >>>> >>>> Altimeter corrects pressue to sea level so you do not have to >>>> account for elevation differences between your station and the >>>> reference station. Just match the reported airport METAR altimeter >>>> pressure ("QNH" XX.XX inches of Mercury (Hg) or "INS") to your >>>> corrected altimeter pressure. Listen to the Amador METAR report >>>> from its AWOS station by calling 209-257-1292 (this is on the >>>> airnav.com page). >>>> Dave >>>> CW0351 >>>> >>>> P.S. Near sea-level, pressure decreases about 0.001 inch of >>>> Mercury for every foot in the vertical. Station pressure is only >>>> used when comparing two station's raw, uncorrected, station >>>> pressures. Station pressure is not generally available from >>>> ASOS/AWOS stations. In addition to requiring both (raw) station >>>> pressures in inches of Mercury, you also need both station's >>>> elevations in feet to do a comparison. >>>> Charles Bland wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Me and my Peet Bros Weather Station live in the Sierra Nevada >>>>> mountains at 3500 ft AMSL. >>>>> >>>>> My nearest airport with AWOS is at approximately 1700 ft AMSL. >>>>> http://www.airnav.com/airport/O70 >>>>> >>>>> So, when I calibrate my barometer AT THE AIRPORT, then take it >>>>> home, the reading always falls because of the elevation/air >>>>> pressure change. >>>>> >>>>> My question is, how do I adjust the AWOS reading at the airport to >>>>> compensate for the elevation change to my house? Is there a >>>>> ballpark number for air pressure change as you change elevation? >>>>> >>>>> Chuck >>>>> >>>>> p.s. a recent power outage here really goofed my station, so if >>>>> you look the data quality page for me (CW4289) it is going to look >>>>> REAL BAD. So, since my station battery died and I lost a bunch of >>>>> data, I took the opportunity to solve my calibration problem on >>>>> the barometer. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> wxqc mailing list >>>>> wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >>>>> http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >>>>> >>>>> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> wxqc mailing list >> wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >> http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc >> >> The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > > From tbarstow at earthlink.net Sun Feb 5 23:39:11 2006 From: tbarstow at earthlink.net (Thomas Barstow) Date: Sun Feb 5 23:38:05 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Vantage Pro 2 Time Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20060205233720.019a4bc0@earthlink.net> I'm trying to adjust the time on my Vantage Pro 2 console but can not find the manual. Can anyone give me the instructions. I'm using VWS software. There seems to be about 3 mins difference between the VWS computer time and Vantage Pro 2 console. Thanks Tom Barstow Visit our sites @: Moyock Weather Service www.moyockweather.com Wunderground Weather Moyock http://www.wunderground.com/US/NC/Moyock.html Mom and Pop's General Store www.momandpopgifts.com From leroydl at verizon.net Mon Feb 6 00:08:15 2006 From: leroydl at verizon.net (LeRoy Lambert) Date: Mon Feb 6 00:08:37 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Vantage Pro 2 Time References: <7.0.1.0.0.20060205233720.019a4bc0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <02a701c62adb$561b1e20$2f01a8c0@LEROY> Setup Set time and date (Ctrl+T) LeRoy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Barstow" To: Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 8:39 PM Subject: [wxqc] Vantage Pro 2 Time > I'm trying to adjust the time on my Vantage Pro 2 console but can not > find the manual. Can anyone give me the instructions. I'm using VWS > software. There seems to be about 3 mins difference between the VWS > computer time and Vantage Pro 2 console. > > Thanks > > Tom Barstow > Visit our sites @: > > Moyock Weather Service > www.moyockweather.com > > Wunderground Weather Moyock > http://www.wunderground.com/US/NC/Moyock.html > > Mom and Pop's General Store > www.momandpopgifts.com > > > _______________________________________________ > wxqc mailing list > wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net > http://pond1.gladstonefamily.net:8080/mailman/listinfo/wxqc > > The contents of this message are the responsibility of the author. > From don at kansasphotos.com Sun Feb 5 23:46:49 2006 From: don at kansasphotos.com (Don Palmer) Date: Mon Feb 6 08:42:43 2006 Subject: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking In-Reply-To: <43E6D291.9080206@comcast.net> References: <43E6D191.1050309@wa4phy.net> Message-ID: <43E68059.8124.11D9DB1E@localhost> I started using that local phone number for my area (Topeka, KS) that Dave brought to everyones attention for the local altimeter reading several months ago, but what gets me is that about a year ago they would always give it in millibars along with everything else in metric, but now they give everything in metric, but the altimeter is in inches. Oregon Scientific barometers are more accurate using MB instead of inches and the inches from the ASOS or airport don't necessarily line up with the inches displayed on the OS barometer. don CW2327 On 5 Feb 2006 at 23:37, Dave Helms wrote: You might try reading the CWOP Guide section on pressure too, I borrowed heavily from the UIUC site. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dshelms/CWOP_Guide.pdf Sam Drinkard wrote: > Chuck, > > I don't know if this might confuse the issue even more, but > here's > a pretty good link that does a decent job of describing atmospheric > pressure. Altho it does not go into great detail about the > difference between station pressure & altimeter, the graphics do > explain *why* the pressure is different, and with a bit of thinking, > you'll see how the altimeter readings are obtained. > > http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/fw/prs/def.rxml > > The whole website is great for general reading and info. > Sam > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > Dave Helms wrote: > >> Chuck, >> >> Here is as simple as I can say it, the (altimeter) pressure at the >> airport is not the true pressure at the airport (the true pressure >> is the raw, uncorrected, station pressure which is not typically >> sent to the public). Its the pressure you would have at the >> airport IF you got in an elevator and pushed "G" and descend >> through bedrock to sea level directly below the airport. The >> altimeter pressure correction ADDs the hypothetical pressure >> between a station's true elevation and sea level so weather folks >> can do an apples to apples comparison between stations with >> different elevations. Here is the easy way out of this deal, on an >> afternoon with little or no winds... 1. Set your Ultimeter console >> pressure units to "inHg" (or just "in") for inches of Mercury 2. >> Call the weather station automated report #, 209-257-1292 3. Write >> down the pressure the AWOS says is the current pressure >> (altimeter), it will be XX.XX inches (of Mercury or the atomic >> element code "Hg", get it!) 4. Adjust your Peet Ultimeter to the >> AWOS pressure using the Peet instructions for adjusting pressure 5. >> Watch the QCMS for a week or two to see if you hit the target >> >> The Peet Ultimeter instructions are terrible at telling people how >> to set their pressure. Essentially, whatever reference pressure >> you use to set your pressure (in CWOP's case, airport ASOS >> altimeter), that is the "type" of pressure your station is then >> reporting. >> >> This will work, trust me. >> >> Dave >> CW0351 >> >> Charles Bland wrote: >> >>> Dave, >>> >>> I'm trying to get a mental handle on this statement. >>> >>> "Altimeter corrects pressure to sea level so you do not have to >>> account for elevation differences between your station and the >>> reference station. " >>> >>> A quick piece of background.... What started all this is the CWOP >>> Quality page for my station. At the time (not now; it's all >>> screwed-up now because of my earlier outage) the data quality site >>> said my barometer was off but temps and humidity were fine. Since >>> watching that, I've been on a quest to understand barometer >>> calibration and how I can my barometric data quality up. >>> >>> So, from the quote above, are you saying that the corrected sea >>> level pressure, as measured at the airport, is probably the same >>> corrected pressure for my house, even though I am 1810 feet >>> higher? >>> >>> I took a drive to day with my barometer. I had set it to the >>> reading announced by the airport AWOS, 30.07". By the time I got >>> to the airport, the barometer was reading 2 inches higher. No >>> surprise. I set it again then drove home. >>> >>> Yup, the reading was 2 inches lower. >>> >>> According to the fudge-factor you gave me, I would expect to see a >>> 1.8" difference, which isn't far from the 2" delta that was >>> measured. >>> >>> How do I pull this all together? >>> >>> Also, is my Ultimeter 2100 capable of displaying absolute air >>> pressure? It doesn't come out and say that in the manual. It does >>> say I can display pressure in three difference units, hPa/mbar, >>> inHg, or mmHg. I'm going to presume that inches and mm HG are >>> relative. How about hPa/mbar? Relative or absolute? >>> >>> Dave et al, thanks for your patience in this. It is facinating >>> stuff, but also a steep learning curve. >>> >>> Chuck >>> >>> I went for a nice Sunday afternoon drive today and found a 2" Hg >>> difference from my house to the airport. >>> >>> Note Dave Helms's stunning brilliance and Chuck's apt reply >>> (gack!) >>> >>> Date sent: Sun, 05 Feb 2006 12:16:47 -0500 >>> From: Dave Helms >>> To: BackForty@BlandRanch.net, >>> Discussion of weather data quality issues >>> >>> Subject: Re: [wxqc] Barometer Tweaking >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hi Chuck, >>>> >>>> Altimeter corrects pressue to sea level so you do not have to >>>> account for elevation differences between your station and the >>>> reference station. Just match the reported airport METAR >>>> altimeter pressure ("QNH" XX.XX inches of Mercury (Hg) or "INS") >>>> to your corrected altimeter pressure. Listen to the Amador METAR >>>> report from its AWOS station by calling 209-257-1292 (this is >>>> on the airnav.com page). Dave CW0351 >>>> >>>> P.S. Near sea-level, pressure decreases about 0.001 inch of >>>> Mercury for every foot in the vertical. Station pressure is only >>>> used when comparing two station's raw, uncorrected, station >>>> pressures. Station pressure is not generally available from >>>> ASOS/AWOS stations. In addition to requiring both (raw) station >>>> pressures in inches of Mercury, you also need both station's >>>> elevations in feet to do a comparison. Charles Bland wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Me and my Peet Bros Weather Station live in the Sierra Nevada >>>>> mountains at 3500 ft AMSL. >>>>> >>>>> My nearest airport with AWOS is at approximately 1700 ft AMSL. >>>>> http://www.airnav.com/airport/O70 >>>>> >>>>> So, when I calibrate my barometer AT THE AIRPORT, then take it >>>>> home, the reading always falls because of the elevation/air >>>>> pressure change. >>>>> >>>>> My question is, how do I adjust the AWOS reading at the airport >>>>> to compensate for the elevation change to my house? Is there a >>>>> ballpark number for air pressure change as you change elevation? >>>>> >>>>> Chuck >>>>> >>>>> p.s. a recent power outage here really goofed my station, so if >>>>> you look the data quality page for me (CW4289) it is going to >>>>> look REAL BAD. So, since my station battery died and I lost a >>>>> bunch of data, I took the opportunity to solve my calibration >>>>> problem on the barometer. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> wxqc mailing list >>>>> wxqc@lists.gladstonefamily.net >>>>> http://pond1.gladstonefamily.ne